Saturday, March 16, 2024

Isaiah 51:9; 53:1 – The Arm Of Jehovah (Working on)

Isaiah 51:9 – Awake, awake, put on strength, arm of Jehovah; awake, as in the days of old, the generations of ancient times. Isn’t it you who did cut Rahab in pieces, who pierced the monster?

Isaiah 53:1 – Who has believed our message? and to whom has the arm of Jehovah been revealed?

Most translations change the Holy Name to “the Lord”, making it read, “the arm of the Lord.” The American Standard, and some others, read, “the arm of Jehovah” or "arm of Yahweh". The English form "Jehovah" is based on the Masoretic Hebrew text, while the form "Jehovah" is based on a Greek form that is often transliterated as IAUE. The sounds attributed to these four vowels were read back into the Hebrew tetragrammaton of God's Holy Name to produce the Latin form "Yahweh".

The expression, “the arm of Jehovah,” is often thought to be a title of Jesus, and thus many automatically associate this expression with Jesus. Some have endeavored to show that the arm of Jehovah is God's Holy Spirit and that it is also Jesus, and in some vague manner this is supposed to prove the Holy Spirit is Jesus, or that the Holy Spirit as well as Jesus are both persons of the one God, Jehovah.

Indeed, the term can be used of Jesus in the sense that Jesus performs the work of his God. Nevertheless, in neither of these scriptures do we have reason to think that the Messiah being called the “arm” of Jehovah. When used figuratively in the Bible, the word “arm” usually signifies strength, power. In Psalm 10:15, for instance, we read: “Break the arm of the wicked.” It should be apparent that by “arm” it is speaking figuratively of the power of the wicked. In Ezekiel 30:21, Jehovah says: “I have broken the arm of Pharaoh king of Egypt.” By this He means the power of Pharaoh. There are many scriptures in the Bible that show that Jehovah's arm is used in the sense of strength, power, or as his power extended to deliver, etc. -- Exodus 6:6; 15:16; Deuteronomy 4:34; 5:15; 7:19; 11:2; 26:8; 2 Kings 17:36; Psalm 98:1; Isaiah 30:30,32; Jeremiah 48:25, Luke 1:51 and more.

Likewise, Isaiah 51:9 and Isaiah 53:1 are both speaking of the strength, the power of Jehovah. Neither of these scriptures directly apply the term “arm of Jehovah” to Jesus, although in Isaiah 53, Jehovah's arm, His strength and might is certainly exercises through the Messiah, in harmony with Isaiah 11:2,3; 61:1,2; Micah 5:4 and 1 Corinthians 8:6.

Awake, awake, put on strength, arm of Jehovah; awake, as in the days of old, the generations of ancient times. Isn’t it you who did cut Rahab in pieces, who pierced the monster? — Isaiah 51:9, World English Bible

Since Jehovah never sleeps, why would God’s people pray for his arm to “awake”? Matthew Henry’s comments are very applicable here: “He that keeps Israel neither slumbers nor sleeps; but, when we pray that he would awake, we mean that he would make it to appear that he watches over his people and is always awake to do them good. The arm of the Lord is said to awake when the power of God exerts itself with more than ordinary vigour on his people’s behalf. When a hand or arm is benumbed we say, It is asleep; when it is stretched forth for action, It awakes. God needs not to be reminded nor excited by us, but he gives us leave thus to be humbly earnest with him for such appearances of his power as will be for his own praise.”*
==========
*Henry, Matthew. “Commentary on Isaiah 51”. “Matthew Henry Complete Commentary on the Whole Bible”.

http://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/matthew-henry-complete/isaiah/51.html.

1706.

Likewise, the prayer requests the “arm of Jehovah” to “put on strength”. Certainly the idea is not that Jehovah’s arm was weakened so as to have need to be supplied strength from elsewhere; rather, it is an expression of readiness of power to accomplish a task.

The prayer is asking for Jehovah to use his strength to act “as he did in the days of old”, when Israel was delivered from Egypt, represented here as “Rahab”. — Isaiah 30:7.

Who has believed our message? and to whom has the arm of Jehovah been revealed? — Isaiah 53:1.

Who has discerned the arm, the power of Jehovah, and God’s great provision for man’s needs? This prophecy is concerning the message of Christ, for it is through Jesus that the arm, the power, of Jehovah is revealed. How many have truly comprehended the greatness of the length and the breadth and the height and the depth of the love of God expressed in Christ, which passes all understanding? (Ephesians 3:14-19; Philippians 4:7) The message of Jesus, although often presented through the distortions of man's creeds, has been proclaimed here and there for almost two thousand years, and while there have been many who have professed to have believed the message, in reality very few have appreciated the fullness of the message. Look out all over the world today and see how few there are who believe the message of God in respect to his great plan. The great majority are blinded by the adversary, the God of this world, who has blinded the minds of those who do not believe, lest the light of the goodness of God should shine into their hearts. (2 Corinthians 4:4) The apostle’s words imply that the great adversary is the one who is especially interested in beclouding the mind, and that God’s truth is the special thing intended to enlighten the mind, and that not everybody is in condition of mind to be profited by this great light that would shine forth.

The question asked by the prophet implies that only a few would truly believe the message, so that it would bring a genuine appreciation to their mind and heart. When we view the matter in the light of the eighteen centuries, and then think of how little faith there is today in the promises of God, we can well understand God’s standpoint in speaking through the prophet and saying, ‘Who is it that has believed?’ Practically nobody. We indeed see great churches, and sometimes fine buildings, often with large congregations and yet if we would inquire for the faith once delivered to the saints, if we inquire for an intelligent understanding of God’s great plan, how few would you find who have that understanding, who have delivered the message, who have accepted it, and who are upholding the faith once delivered to the saints.

What we do not find in Isaiah 51 or Isaiah 53 is that God is more than one person, or that God's Holy Spirit is a separate and distinct person of Jehovah, or that the Messiah is a person of his God, etc.


Wednesday, January 31, 2024

John 14:23 - God and Jesus Lives With Us

One has asked:
John 14:23-24 - Jesus answered him, "If a man loves me, he will keep my word. My Father will love him, and we will come to him, and make our home with him. [24] He who doesn't love me doesn't keep my words. The word which you hear isn't mine, but the Father's who sent me.
WHY WOULD JESUS AND THE FATHER COME TO US AND MAKE THEIR DWELLING WITH A BELIEVER AFTER THE HOLY SPIRIT WILL BE SENT TO BE WITH MANKIND TOO?

John 14:23-24 - Jesus answered him, "If a man loves me, he will keep my word. My Father will love him, and we will come to him, and make our home with him. [24] He who doesn't love me doesn't keep my words. The word which you hear isn't mine, but the Father's who sent me.

In the midst of all the temptations and trials that beset us in our earthly pilgrimage we may recognize the voice of our God, saying, 'Do not be afraid. I am your shield, and your exceeding great reward' (Genesis 15:1), " Don't you be afraid, for I am with you; don't be dismayed, for I am your God." (Isaiah 41:10), and he voice of His Son, saying: "Where two or three are gathered together in my name, there I am in the midst of them" (Matthew 18:20), and "I am with you always, even to the end of the age." -- Mathew 28:20. 

Since we see no reason why both Jesus and his God would not reside with a child oF God through God's Holy Spirit, I am not quite sure what is being asked. Evidently, what is being imagined and assumed is that there is something in Jesus' words that has something to do with the added-on trinitarian philosophy, or otherwise that Jesus is God (Supreme Mighty One, Supreme Being). 

Actually, in harmony with John 14:1, Jesus was presenting only one person, his God and Father, as being the "one God of whom are all" (1 Corinthians 8:6). He says nothing at all to the effect that he is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, or that the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is more than one person. Indeed, verse 24 shows that he disclaims being the source of his own words. Verse 23 is in perfect agreement with verse 24 and also 1 Corinthians 8:6 and Hebrews 1:1,2. Jesus is not the source, the Supreme Being, but rather the instrument that the Supreme Being uses. Both Jesus and his God and Father are with the child of God through God's Holy Spirit. -- Ephesians 3:16; 2 Timothy 1:14; 1 John 3:24.

If the oneness idea is being read into what Jesus said, one should remember that authority to use God's Holy Spirit was given to Jesus from his God and Father (John 15:26; Acts 2:33); Jesus is not that Holy Spirit for Jesus offered himself to his God "through the eternal spirit." (Ephesians 1:3; 5:2; Hebrews 9:14) Jesus is neither God's Holy Spirit nor is he "his God."

Friday, January 19, 2024

The Word "Things" in the Bible (Working on)

The word "thing(s)" has been added in Psalm 8:6; John 1:3; 1 Corinthians 8:6; 15:27; Ephesians 1:22; Colossians 1:16-20; Hebrews 2:8-10, and many, many other verses throughout the Bible. Forms of the Hebrew word often transliterated as KOL (Strong's Hebrew #S 3605,3606) and forms of the Greek word often transliterated as PAS (Strong's Greek #3956) rarely, if ever, in the Bible refer to absolutely everything in the universe (which actually would include God Himself), or even every created thing in the universe, although translators evidently add the word "things" evidently with the latter thought in mind. It is also the same with the Hebrew and Greek negative. 

For instance in Hebrews 2:8, without adding the word "thing(s)", we read:

"You have put all in subjection under his feet."

For in that he subjected all to him, he left not one that is not subject to him. But now we don't see all subjected to him, yet.

This is indirectly quoting Psalm 8:6, which speaks of all that God has subjected to man. Hebrews 2:8, however, comments that God had not left one that was not subjected to man. In saying that God had not left one that was not subjected to man, does the scripture mean that the whole universe has been made subject to man? Obviously not! Psalm 8:7,8 briefly expresses what is included in "all" that was subjected to man:

All sheep and oxen, Yes, and the animals of the field, The birds of the sky, the fish of the sea, And whatever passes through the paths of the seas.

In other the all sentient living things on earth was subjected to man. Due to man's disobedience, however, we do not yet see all subjected to man. It is delayed until the ages to come.

In John 1:3, we find similar usage of forms of "pas" as in Hebrews 2:8. God made all through the Logos, and none were made without the Logos. Is the "all" here referring to absolutely every created thing in the universe? Obviously not. John 1:10 identifies what is being referring to as the world (KOSMOS) into which the Logos, the world that did not recognize the Logos. This is the same world (KOSMOS) that sin entered into through one man. (Romans 5:12-19) Jesus' body of flesh was specially prepared by his God (Hebrews 10:5), so that he, while in the days of his flesh (Hebrews 5:7), was not of this world condemned through Adam. Likewise, the new creature in Christ is begotten again apart from this world condemned through Adam, and is therefore not of this condemned world.

But the point is that "the beginning" and "all" in John 1:1-3 is referring, not to the creation of universe, but to the creation of the world of mankind, which God did through his firstborn creature. The invisible sons of God were already in existence at the beginning of the world that was made through the Logos. -- Job 38:4-7.

Likewise, in Colossians 1:16, all that God made through the firstborn son is not in reference to absolutely every created "thing", but rather to the creation of living one who are given dominion or a realm, the invisible sons of God in the heavens and the visible creation of man on the earth. 

https://jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/p/jesus-and-creation.html  

Colossians 1:15,16 – Genitive and “For”


By Ronald R. Day, Sr.
----This study has not yet been edited for this site. It needs to be formatted and links need to be added.

In response to some claims made concerning the usage of the genitive in Colossians 1:15, and the usage of “hoti” — for — in Colossians 1:16.
It has been claimed that the genitive is used in many different ways, and it does not necessarily mean “included with”. It is claimed, among other things, that it can also mean “originating from,” which would actually mean that Christ was born of every creature. Those who would give it this meaning, however, often offset the verse by claiming that Jesus originated from God. For those who believe that Jesus is God, they might also add to this the false idea that if God begets, he only begets “God”, and thus that Jesus is “God” who beget him. One has claimed since he was born of God, that would mean that God is one of those creatures, but “Son of God” means that Christ originated from God, and not from creatures. This actually adds a bit of doubletalk to what Paul actually stated. Directly from what is stated as recorded in Colossians 1:15, the application of the gentitive with the meaning suggested would actually give Paul’s word’s the meaning that Jesus originated from, out of, all creation.

Please see:

Did Jesus Have a Beginning?
Colossians 1:16 and the Creator
Is Jesus the Creator?

From:

http://www.ntgreek.org/learn_nt_greek/classify-genitive.htm

J. Genitive of Source – Sometimes the genitive case indicates the source from which the head noun is derived or  depends. The word `of’ could instead be translated `out of’, `derived from’, or `dependent on’. This use is relatively rare; rather source is often shown with the preposition ejk used with the genitive case.
Another suggestion is that the genitive also sometimes means “ownership; belonging to,” as “the churches of Christ salute you” (Romans 16:16), corresponding with Matt 16:18, “I will build my church.” If this is the way Colossians 1:15 uses the genitive, it would mean that Christ belongs to every creature, which he certainly does not. Jesus, as firstborn, is not, indeed, owned by all creation. For all creation to have possession of Jesus would indeed have to be a very, extra-broad interpretation of this usage of the genitive in Colossians 1:15. In effect, it would have the present world of sinners, alienated from God, children of disobedience and wrath by nature (Ephesians 2:2,3), as having possession of Jesus in some way.

From:
http://www.ntgreek.org/learn_nt_greek/classify-genitive.htm

Possessive Genitive – Showing the ideas of ownership or possession. To see if it is the Genitive of Possession, try substituting the word `of’ with `belonging to’ or `possessed by’. However, this use does not have to indicate actual, physical ownership of some property. It may be a broadly defined type of ownership. This is a very common use of the genitive. A possessive pronoun will often be used in the genitive case to show possession.
Regardless, the evidence of the usage of the word “firstborn” all through the scriptures supports that firstborn of all creation in Colossians 1:15 is partitive genitive, not possessive genitive. Yes, Jesus is indeed, the firstborn creature.

It is also suggested that it means “like unto, or compared with,” (this is called the comparative genitive) such as “(Christ) is the image of the invisible God.” in the same verse. It is claimed that as Christ is the image of God (divine), inheriting God’s nature by being the offspring of God, and not one of those created beings with whom he is here compared. Only the context determines the way the genitive is to be understood. However, it is unclear as to how this could be applied to the phrase, “the firstborn of every creature,” except that one again offsets the application from “creation” to “God”, which, in effect, would actually deny what Paul actually stated. In reality, such an application would have Paul saying, “firstborn [more than/less than, greater than] ever creature.”

From:
http://www.ntgreek.org/learn_nt_greek/classify-genitive.htm

Genitive of Comparison – This use of the genitive almost always comes after an comparative adjective (like `more’, `less’, `greater’, etc.). The customarily used `of’ translated with the genitive should instead be translated `than’. It is a relatively common use of the genitive case.

E.g. Matthew 3:1
“ijscurovterov” mouv ejstin.”
“He is mightier than I.”

Matthew 6:25
“oujci; hJ yuchV plei’ovn ejstin th'” trofh'””
“Is not your life (worth) more than food?”
According to this Greek authority, this would exclude the genitive in Colossians 1:15 as speaking of a genitive of comparison.

Colossians 1:16
hoti en autw ektisthee ta panta en tois
BECAUSE IN HIM IT WAS CREATED THE ALL (THINGS) IN THE
3754 1722 0846_5 2936 3588 3956 1722 3588
ouranois kai epi tees gees ta horata kai
HEAVENS AND UPON THE EARTH, THE (THINGS) VISIBLE AND
3772 2532 1909 3588 1093 3588 3707 2532
ta aorata eite thronoi eite kurioteetes eite
THE (THINGS) INVISIBLE, WHETHER THRONES OR LORDSHIPS OR
3588 0517 1535 2362 1535 2963 1535
archai eite exousiai ta panta di autou
GOVERNMENTS OR AUTHORITIES; THE ALL (THINGS) THROUGH HIM
0746 1535 1849 3588 3956 1223 0846_3
kai eis auton ektistai
AND INTO HIM IT HAS BEEN CREATED;
2532 1519 0846_7 2936

Westcott & Hort Interlinear, as obtained from the Bible Students DVD.

The usage of “for” [Greek often transliterated as "HOTI"] in Colossians 1:16, as in the King James Version, is often claimed to not be accruate, since it would give the thought that all were created through Jesus because of Jesus' being the "firstborn' of Colossians 1;15. Usually, it is further claimed from this that since Jesus is Jehovah, and that in some way, Jesus/Jehovah made himself the firstborn although he had never been brought forth into existence.

While the word “HOTI” can refer back to what is said as the cause for what follows, most trinitarians insist that "HOTI" in verse 16 is telling us that BECAUSE Jesus is the Creator, the title of "firstborn" is given to Jesus. Jesus is indeed the firstborn because God created all things described in Colossians 1:16 by means of the firstborn, this does not mean that one person of Jehovah made another person of Himself firstborn because of this. "The all" described in Colossians 1:16 were created by means of him, this does not mean that Jesus was “made” the firstborn simply because of this, or that in some way firstborn does not mean the first one to born/brought forth of the group spoken of.  It certainly would not give the word “firstborn” the meaning of being begotten outside of time, as many have claimed. All such thoughts would have to be added to, and read into what Paul said. Nor does the fact that Jesus is firstborn because through him God created all the things spoken of Colossians 1:16 negate the genitive partitive usage in Colossians 1:15, which would include Jesus as a member of the creation of which he is the firstborn. Jesus is the firstborn because he was already in existence as the firstborn  before the creation that was made through him, and thus he was used by God as the means to create “the all” that is being spoken of. What distinguishes him from “ta panta” spoken of in verse 16 is that he is the firstborn creature.

Many read into Paul’s statement that Jesus is firstborn because he created TA PANTA — THE All, with idea that TA PANTA means the whole universe. Most translations ignore the Greek word "TA" and add the word "things", thus rendering TA PANTA as "all things." Nevertheless, the phrase “ta panta” is always limited by the context and evidence for inclusion and exclusion. It rarely, if ever, means “the universe” [which in its strictest defintion, “everything that exists”, would include God, since God does exist] as many have suggested. In the context here TA PANTA is limited to the intelligent creation, especially thrones, dominions, principalities, and powers. Certainly God’s own power and dominion was not created by Jesus. (1 Chronicles 29:11; Psalm 47:8; 103:19; Nahum 1:3) Thus we have at least this one exception to be applied to ta panta in Colossians 1:16. If we want to include all power indefinitely, then we should note that the power and authority given to Jesus by God is also not created by Jesus, but was given to him by the Most High, the only source of all power. (Luke 1:32; Matthew 28:18; John 3:35; 5:27; 1 Corinthians 15:27; Ephesians 1:20-22; Philippians 2:9) Now, we have two evident exclusions for the “TA PANTA” spoken of.

That panta in use of powers and dominions being spoken of are limited can be seen from the following application: The first man Adam was given dominion over — “all things” — and seeing that God “subjected all things to him, he left nothing that is not subject to him.” And yet, in actuality, not all things in the whole universe was subjected to man, but relative scriptures show what is included in the all that was subjected to man: the earth, the land and its animals. Spirit beings also, being a step higher than man, also have power, as given to them by God. (Genesis 1:26,28; Psalm 8:5-7; Hebrews 2:5-8.)

Yes, Jesus is firstborn because through him God created all the things spoken of in the context: dominions, powers, invisible and invisible, in heaven and in earth.

After the initial “hoti” clause in verse 16 other statements follow that show why Christ is called the firstborn creature, and are still related to the usage of “hoti”. In Colossians 1:17 we find that he is before the all that was just spoken of. Yes, this is indeed dealing with a time element, and not just a status element. Jesus was “before” the all spoken of, he is therefore the first creature to be brought forth into being. Then in Colossians 1:18 Jesus is spoken of as the “head”, which is, of course, the pre-eminent status, and yet it also refers to him as “the beginning”, which is another element of time. Jesus is firstborn because he is “the beginning” of God’s creation.

Next he is called “firstborn from the dead”. The parallel here should be obvious. Jesus was indeed the first one to be actually born — fully made alive — from the dead, never to die again. This is also a time element, that in all things he might have the preeminence. Thus, as “firstborn” in verse 18 is indeed a time element, so in verse 15 firstborn of all creation is also related to time.

One claims that if Christ was one of those created “things”, then Christ would created himself. No, this is a false idea that has to be read into what is said. As we have shown before, TA PANTA rarely, if ever, means absolutely everything that exists. If it did mean absolutely everything that exists in Colossians 1:16, then, God himself, and Jesus himself, would have to be included in what is said. Earlier we mentioned TA PANTA in reference to dominion, and referred to Psalm 8:5-7 in speaking of the dominion given to man. In Psalm 8:6, we read that God “put all things under his feet.” Does this mean that all things in the universe are put under the feet of puny man? Absolutely not! The following verses show what is meant by “all things”: “All sheep and oxen, Yes, and the animals of the field, The birds of the sky, the fish of the sea, And whatever passes through the paths of the seas. ” (Psalm 8:7,8) Thus “all things” is limited by context and evidence. When Paul quoted Psalm 8 in Hebrews 2:6-9, he uses “panta” and “ta panta”: “”You have put all things [PANTA] in subjection under his [man’s] feet.” For in that he subjected all things [TA PANTA] to him, he left nothing that is not subject to him. But now we don’t see all things subjected to him, yet.” (Hebrews 2:7) Man, when he sinned, to a great extent, lost the original dominion given to him over all things, thus Paul says that “now” we don’t see all things subjected to man, not yet. This implies that the time will come when all things will again be subjected to man. But our point here is that even though Paul says: “in that he [God] subjected all things [TA PANTA] to him [man], he [God] left nothing that is not subject to him [man].” As we have already seen, this entire expression is relative to what was being spoken of, that is, “the all” on the earth. Angels were not made subject to man, but Psalm 8:7,8 show what is included when Paul says that God “left nothing that is not subject to him.”

Likewise, in Colossians 1:16, TA PANTA is not speaking about absolutely everything in the universe, nor even about absolutely everything in the created universe. The rule of evidence shows that Jesus, as the firstborn creature, is not included. An example of this is found in 1 Corinthians 15:27, where Paul again used TA PANTA, but shows the “evident” exclusion of God himself as being subjected to Jesus.

Another question is asked:  In verse 17 (Colossinas 1:17), it says “he (Christ) is before all things.” So if Christ is before all things, how could he be one of those created things which he is before and which he subsequently created? Most certainly, Jesus is not being included in TA PANTA — “the all” – – that is being referred to in Colossians 1:16. This does not mean that Jesus was not created before TA PANTA — the all — that is being referred to, as we have already shown.

Whatever made be said, however, we do not find anything in Colossians 1:15 or Colossians 1:16 about three persons in one God, or that Jesus is his God, or that Jesus is the Creator.

Related Studies

Without Jesus Absolutely Nothing Was Created?

Is Jesus Designated the Creator?

Sunday, January 7, 2024

Acts 2:22-24 -- Jesus of Nazareth and God (Working on)

Acts 2:22 - "You men of Israel, hear these words. Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved by God to you by mighty works and wonders and signs which God did by him in the midst of you, even as you yourselves know,
Acts 2:23 - him, being delivered up by the determined counsel and foreknowledge of God, you have taken by the hand of lawless men, crucified and killed;
Acts 2:24 - whom God raised up, having freed him from the agony of death, because it was not possible that he should be held by it.  -- World English.

Some trinitarians and some others may present Acts 2:22-24 as proof of the trinity, or as proof that Jesus is God Almighty, or possibly as proof of the alleged dual natures of Christ (hypostatic union). As yet, we haven't actually found any explanation as to how the words recorded in Acts 2:22,23 offers any proof that Jesus is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, or that God is more than one person, or that Jesus is fully God (Supreme Being) and fully man (human being) at the same time.

In reality, "God" is presented as being only one person in these verses and Jesus is not presented as being "God" but rather the man through whom God performed miracles.

Evidently, the claim is that Acts 2:22 means that God is in Christ, and from this it is evidently imagined and assumed that Acts 2:21 is referring to their imagined and assumed assertion that Jesus is both fully God and fully man (dual natures of Christ, hypostatic union). 2 Corinthians 5:19; John 10:37,38 and John 14:7-11 are cited to support this imagined and assumed assertion. Of course, any idea of that Jesus had two natures at the same time has also to be imagined and assumed and then added to what is written in all the scriptures, since no such idea is presented in any of the scriptures cited.

In 2 Corinthians 5:18,19, "God" is only one person, and Jesus is the instrument that God uses to reconcile the world to Himself. John 10:37,38; 14:10,11 shows that Jesus is in God and that God is Jesus. However, said that his disciples are in him and that he is in his disciples, and prayed for his followers to be one in himself and his Father (John 17:21) He was not saying that his followers would be God Almighty as he is [allegedly] God Almighty. See our study: "God in Christ".

God willing, we will add an examination of claims related to "it was not possible that he should be held by it" later, and possibly some other claims.

Related to the scriptures above, some trinitarians will begin to cite many scriptures which they claim shows Jesus to be God Almighty, such as Mark 2:7;  John 1:1; John 8:58; John 20:28;  Hebrews 1:6; Hebrews 1:10, and many other scriptures. Of course, in none of these scriptures do we find that Jesus is identified as being Jehovah, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. As usually, one has created many assumptions beyond what is written and then add to those assumptions to, and read those assumptions into the scriptures in order to make the scriptures appear to be saying that Jesus is Jehovah, or that Jesus is a person of Jehovah, etc. Since we have examined most, if not all, the scriptures often presented elsewhere, we will not do such again here, but we refer one to our resources pages related to "Is Jesus God?"

Wednesday, December 20, 2023

Isaiah 6:3; Revelation 4:8 – Thrice Holy

Revelation 4:8 – and the four living creatures, having each one of them six wings, are full of eyes around about and within. They have no rest day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy is [Yahweh] God, the Almighty, who was and who is and who is to come.

Isaiah 6:3 – One cried to another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is Yahweh of Hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.

These scriptures are sometimes cited as supporting the trinitarian dogma, since each uses the word “holy” three times.

This has to be Jehovah, the God of Jesus, referred to in Revelation 4:8, since this One is spoken of as one person in Revelation 5:1 as the One holding the scroll in His right hand. In Revelation 5:7 we find that the Lamb, Jesus, takes the scroll out of the hand of the one sitting on the throne. This shows that the one sitting on the throne, called “the Lord [Jehovah] God, The Almighty, who was and who is and who is to come” in Revelation 4:8 is indeed only one person, the God and Father of Jesus, and not Jesus himself.

The phrase “who was and who is and who is to come” is simply another way of saying the same thing as “from everlasting to everlasting” as found in Psalm 90:2. Only the God of Jesus is Almighty. Only the God of Jesus is “from everlasting to everlasting.” Jesus is not being made the “Almighty God” in the power and authority given him by the only true Almighty. (Matthew 28:18) It is evident that the power and authority given to Jesus is from One who is more powerful than the power and authority given. (1 Corinthians 15:27) If Jesus actually had been made the Almighty, this would mean that there are two Supreme Beings, but that only one of them had been Almighty from eternity past, since the other had to be made Almighty by the other. In reality, only Jehovah, the God and Father of Jesus, is the Almighty. Jesus is, always has been and will always be, of a lesser glory in his bodily substance than Jehovah, his God. Jehovah is the only one who has the distinct glory as the Most High. — 1 Corinthians 15:40,41.

In Revelation 1:9,10, John refers to himself when he heard a loud voice, as of a trumpet, (verse 11) saying, “Write what you see…” This quote is from Jesus, not Jehovah, as described in the following verses. In verse 18 Jesus says: “I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore.” Jesus was actually dead and not alive anywhere, if this is to make any sense at all, for he contrasts his being dead with being alive forevermore. Now we know that God cannot die, so Jesus is thus by this verse proved to not be God Almighty.

What has to be added to, and read into Revelation 4:8 to have this support the trinitarian dogma, is that one of the words “holy” represents the God and Father of Jesus, while and another instance of the word “holy” represents the God-Son of the God and Father of Jesus, and that other instance of “holy” represents the holy spirit of the God and Father of Jesus. Since Revelation 4:8 also attributes all three usages of “holy” to the One who was and who is and who is to come, that is, the One who is depicted as sitting on the throne (Revelation 4:9), then the trinitarian has to add some explanation, and read whatever explanation they give into, the scriptures since the Lamb is depicted as taking the scroll from this One who was and who is and who is to come. (Revelation 5:6,7) Usually, however, we find no explanation given for the self-contradiction. Some simply explain the self-contradiction as one of the “mysteries” of the trinity.

In actuality, the Lamb who approaches the One who was and who is and who is to come in order to take the scroll from that One is not that One from whom he takes the scroll. Rather than proving the trinitarian dogma, Revelation 4:8,9 associated with Revelation 5:6,7 shows that the trinity dogma is not true. Only the One who is depicted as sitting on the throne, the One who was and who is and who is to come is the Almighty. Jesus is never depicted as the “Almighty” from whom Jesus, the Lamb, receives the scroll. This corresponds with Revelation 1:1, where we read that God gave to Jesus the revelation so that Jesus could give it to John.

Why, then, is the word “holy” repeated three times?

Some point out that the Sinaitic Manuscript and some others have holy eight times in this verse; if this was the way John originally received the revelation, then the word “holy” is used of the God and Father of Jesus eight times! Thus some point out the significance of the number eight as used in the Bible: The Jewish child was circumcised on the eighth day (Genesis 17:12; Leviticus 12:3; Luke 1:59; Philippians 3:5) signifying purification and holiness of heart (Exodus 6:12; Deuteronomy 10:16; 30:6; Matthew 12:34); seven days a sheep was to be with its dam, and on the eighth given to Yahweh (Exodus 22:30); the eighth day after the seven days of Feast of Tabernacles was to be a holy convocation to Yahweh. (Leviticus 23:36,39) Eight signifies the day following the seven days of the week, the day of renewal, and thus many believe that eighth day signifies the 1,000 years to follow Christ’s millennial reign, for then all things will have been completely been made new, but not this only, but that all things will have been brought to full perfection. ( Revelation 21:1-5) Thus it is thought the eight instances of “holy” signify Jehovah’s actual perfect holiness, his absolute purity, which will be eventually be revealed in the ages to come.

However, the corresponding scripture in Isaiah 6:3 only has holy three times, not eight times, so we feel pronged to believe that in Revelation 4:8, the original also only had “holy” only three times.

Nevertheless, to many trinitarians, the “thrice holy” is thought in some vague manner to mean the trinity, as mentioned above.

There is no “and” in these three declarations that Jehovah is holy, neither in the Hebrew nor the Greek. For emphasis, Jehovah is “thrice” pronounced as holy, but it is not that Jehovah is “thrice holy”, or holy three times. It is similar to:

Ezekiel 21:27 – I will overturn, overturn, overturn it: this also shall be no more, until he come whose right it is; and I will give it [him].

God is not saying that he will overturn the prince of Israel (evidently Zedekiah) three times; he is repeating the word for emphasis. It appears the usage of the word three times is used to designate the superlative degree, not to emphasize what is being spoken of as being three times. There is definitely no scriptural reason to think Jehovah would overturn prince of Israel one time as God the Father, and another time as the alleged God the Son, and another time as the alleged God the Holy Spirit.

Regarding Ezekiel 21:27:

The threefold repetition denotes the awful certainty of the event; not as ROSENMULLER explains, the overthrow of the three, Jehoiakim, Jeconiah, and Zedekiah; for Zedekiah alone is referred to. -- Fausset, A. R., A.M. “Commentary on Ezekiel 21”. “Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible”. 1871.

Likewise in Isaiah 6:3 and Revelation 4:8. There is no reason to add to Isaiah 6:3 that the seraphs were saying that Jehovah is three persons: Holy Father and Holy Son and Holy Spirit. Holy is repeated for emphasis.

Regardless, the thought of three persons being spoken of in Revelation 4:8 or Isaiah 6:3 has to be assumed, added to, and read into the three times that the word “holy” appears in those verses.

Tuesday, December 19, 2023

Riding the Clouds (working on)

The following scriptures are presented as an alleged proof that Jesus is Jehovah, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob: Deuteronomy 33:26, Psalm 18:9-10, Psalm 68:4, Psalm 104:3, Isaiah 19:1; Daniel 7:13,14; Matthew‬ ‭26‬:‭64‬-‭65‬; Revelation 1:8. (Related scriptures: Matthew 16:27; 24:30; 25:31; Luke 21:27) Obviously, there is nothing in any of these scriptures that clearly identify Jesus as being Jehovah, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, who spoke through the prophets of old. -- Hebrews 1:1,2.

Evidently, it is being imagined and assumed that because Jesus is spoken of as coming in a cloud, that this means that Jesus is Jehovah who is spoken of riding the clouds in the Old Testament. This is like saying because the scriptures say that Moses led the children of Israel out of Egypt, this means that Moses is Jehovah who is also said to have led the children of Israel out of Egypt. -- (need scriptures).

More will be added, later, God willing.

The following links contain material pertaining to Deuteronomy 33:26 we intend to respond to. This is for our own reference and we may respond to some things stated; we do not necessarily agree with what is presented by the authors:

https://spoiledmilks.com/2016/01/07/daniel-7-cloud-rider-unseen-realm-heiser/
https://streettheologian.medium.com/was-jesus-god-10-uncommon-considerations-4403ab56296f
https://www.facebook.com/HebrewRootsHeresy/photos/a.779266598755772/2461424033873345/?type=3
https://marshillapologetics.ca/jesusclaim