tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2081748873678351197.post4680097516546921281..comments2024-01-19T12:25:09.941-08:00Comments on Jesus and Jehovah (Yahweh): Russell on "He Who Was, Is, and Is to Come"Ronald Dayhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01428695352830083280noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2081748873678351197.post-53411862055650398452017-09-26T19:26:14.855-07:002017-09-26T19:26:14.855-07:00-- The Crucified Lamb and the Ransom are high-ligh...-- The Crucified Lamb and the Ransom are high-lighted repeatedly in Rev. and Jesus is the first and the last Ransom, the Alpha and the Omega of God's entire plan of salvation.>><br /><br />While we could indeed correctly apply "the first and the last" to Jesus' sacrifice, I highly doubt that this is specifically what Jesus had in mind when he said that he was the first and the last, "who was dead, and has come to life." Nevertheless, Jesus' death as a man for sin was done only once. Everyone before Jesus was condemned in the sin of Adam, and from conception had nothing to offer to God for sin, as all of Adam's descendants are made sinners due to Adam's sin. (Romans 5:19) All of Adam's descendants are dying in Adam. (1 Corinthians 15:21,22) Indeed, if Jesus had been a sinner before his baptism, his acceptance as being the Lamb of God who dies for the sin of the world would not have been possible. (John 1:29) Jesus, however, while he was born of the lineage of David by means of his mother and his foster father, was not actually tainted with the sinful bloodline of Adam. His God and Father especially prepared his body (Hebrews 10:5) in the womb of Mary (Matthew 1:20) separate from the world condemned through Adam's sin. Thus Jesus could offer his human body of flesh for sin. (Hebrews 10:10) Such a sacrificial offering to God (Ephesisans 5:2; Hebrews 9:14) is only done once, thus we read that this Jesus "did once for all, when he offered up himself." (Hebrews 7:27) Christ "suffered for sins once", being put to death in flesh, but not raised in the flesh (for he sacrificed his body of flesh with its blood for sin), but in the spirit. (2 Peter 3:18) Because Jesus, then, died once for all time for sin, "there remains no more sacrifice for sins" (Hebrews 10:26) for one who willfully sins after having been begotten again of the spirit so as to taste of the power of the age to come (Hebrews 6:4-6), for such "has trodden under foot the Son of God, and has counted the blood of the covenant with which he was sanctified an unholy thing, and has insulted the Spirit of grace." -- Hebrews 10:29.<br /><br />But since there is no more sacrifice for sin, yes, Jesus is the first and the last to offer such a sacrifice.<br /><br />-- *the spirits (messages) go forth to all the earth, and at the end of each message to each church we are told it is from THE spirit, Jesus. --<br /><br />Jesus, no longer being in the days of his flesh (Hebrews 5:7), is thus no long a being of flesh and blood, a little lower than the angels (Hebrews 2:9), and, being raised in the spirit rather than in the flesh (1 Peter 3:18), he is now spirit in his being, having a celestial, spiritual bodily glory rather than the glory of a sinless man of flesh. (1 Corinthians 15:39-41) But this certainly does not mean that the seven spirits of God IS Jesus; if it does then Jesus is 'before the throne' of He who was, is and is to come (Revelation 1:4; 4:5), which would make him be before himself, one of him being on the throne, and another of him being before the throne. Revelation 3:1 shows that Jesus "has" the seven spirits of his God. Without being dogmatic, I believe that the expression "seven spirits" is being used to express seven aspects of God's spirit that denotes a completeness or perfection. At the same time, I acknowledge that it is possible that the seven spirits are being used to represent something else: seven spirit beings, or even the seven spirits of Isaiah 11:2. These seven spirits are upon the one whom Jehovah anointed with His Spirit. (Isaiah 61:1; Acts 10:38) Regardless, these seven spirits are from the "one God" who is the source. -- 1 Corinthians 8:6.Ronald Dayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01428695352830083280noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2081748873678351197.post-45666020906956233962017-09-26T19:24:33.759-07:002017-09-26T19:24:33.759-07:00-- He who was dead, who is alive, and who is to r...-- He who was dead, who is alive, and who is to return, --<br /><br />Evidently the above is being imagined to be what is meant by He who was, is and is to come? Let us plug that into Revelation 5:7, where He who sat on the throne is He "who was and who is and who is to come" of Revelation 4:8.<br /><br />Then he [the Lamb was dead, slain] came, and he [the Lamb] took it out of the right hand of him who was dead, who is alive, and who is to return.<br /><br />Obviously two different persons, two different individuals, are being referred to, and Jesus is not both of those persons/individuals.<br /><br />He who was dead is definitely not the Eternal One of Revelation 1:4,8, for the Eternal is never dead. Jesus does indeed return, although none of the scriptures given above are speaking of his return.<br /><br />-- plus the 7 *spirits, plus Rev 1:5 "And (Even) from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood." For Mighty, see Mt 28:18. --<br /><br />and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To him who loves us, and washed us from our sins by his blood; 6 and he made us to be a kingdom, priests to his God and Father; to him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen<br /><br />Those who belong to Jesus in this age are made a kingdom of priests to the God and Father of Jesus. There is nothing in this that gives us reason to think that Jesus is "all three" spoken of in Revelation 1:4,5 from whom the messages to churches are given.<br /><br />Ronald Dayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01428695352830083280noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2081748873678351197.post-32219461640308909272017-09-26T19:23:32.232-07:002017-09-26T19:23:32.232-07:00-- Rev. 1:18 and 5:6 reveal that Jesus is all 3. -...-- Rev. 1:18 and 5:6 reveal that Jesus is all 3. --<br /><br />Are you saying that Jesus is the one on the throne and that Jesus (the seven spirits) are before the throne of Jesus, and that Jesus takes the scroll from Jesus? I have no scriptural reason to believe such self-contradictions.-- Revelation 5:6,7.<br /><br />Revelation 1:18 and the Living one; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive for evermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades.<br /><br />Revelation 5:6,7 I saw in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the<br />midst of the elders, a Lamb standing, as though it had been slain, having seven horns, and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God, sent out into all the earth. Then he came, and he took it out of the right hand of him who sat on the throne.<br /><br />Nothing here indicates that Jesus is he who is, was, and is to come of Revelation 1:4,8, etc. Jesus is the Living One because his God saved him from the dead (Hebrews 5:7) by raising him from death (Acts 2:32; 3:15; 4:10; 13:30,37; Romans 10:9; 1 Corinthians 6:14), and now "he lives through the power of God" (2 Corinthians 13:4) so that he will never again cease to live. Rather than depicting Jesus as one sitting on the throne, Jesus is depicted as the Lamb that takes the scroll from him who is on the throne. The scriptures does not say the Lamb IS the seven spirits, nor does it says that Lamb IS he who is the throne. The seven spirits, being "of God", are given to Jesus, and Jesus is said to be one "who has the seven spirits of God (Revelation 3:1, and these seven spirits are figuratively pictured as "seven eyes" of the figurative Lamb. Revelation 4:5 pictures these "seven spirits" as figurative blazing torches being in front of the throne, and thus before the One who is sitting on the throne, as spoken of in Revelation 1:4.<br /><br />Ronald Dayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01428695352830083280noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2081748873678351197.post-91715071499149329882017-09-26T19:22:21.147-07:002017-09-26T19:22:21.147-07:00tobewan,
--Rev. being highly symbolical, the follo...tobewan,<br />--Rev. being highly symbolical, the following is preferably suggested: Rev.1:1 The Revelation is BY Jesus Christ;<br /><br />"The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him...." --<br /><br />The Revelation is not from Jesus originally, but it is from the God and Father of Jesus. God is thus its actual author, and as usual, God does things through Jesus. (1 Corinthians 8:6) Thus, Jesus does the actual revealing through the angel to John.<br /><br />-- Throne = Plan's authority. Rev. 1:4 is correct. --<br /><br />John to the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace, from him who is and who was and who is to come; and from the seven Spirits that are before his throne; 5 and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. -- Revelation 1:4,5.<br /><br />The throne here is definitely symbolic. "Him who is and who was and who is to come", who sits on the throne is definitely referring to Jehovah, the God and Father of Jesus. (Isaiah 61:1; John 17:1,3; Ephesians 1:3) And this one who is, was and is to come is the one who is depicted as sitting on the throne. Wherever it is found, the appellative clause “who is [in the present], . . . who was [in the past], . . . who is to come [will ever be in the future]” exclusively designates the Supreme Being, the "one God" who is the source of all. (1 Corinthians 8:6; Revelation 1:8; 4:8,10; 5:1,7,13; 6:16; 7:10,15; 19:4; 21:5) The God and Father of Jesus is the Eternal One, who always was and ever will be, “that inhabiteth eternity,” “from everlasting to everlasting,” never having brought forth by anyone. (Psalm 90:2; 106:48; Isaiah 57:15). <br /><br />"Throne" in the Bible usually signifies rulership of a kingdom. Jehovah's throne is "established of old" (Psalm 93:2). Before there was any creation to rule over, there was no need for a throne, but with beginning of creation, Jehovah's overall kingdom and his throne was established. -- Psalm 103:19.<br />Ronald Dayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01428695352830083280noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2081748873678351197.post-17485917807309161332017-02-06T02:44:59.294-08:002017-02-06T02:44:59.294-08:00Rev. being highly symbolical, the following is pre...Rev. being highly symbolical, the following is preferably suggested: <br />Rev.1:1 The Revelation is BY Jesus Christ; Throne = Plan's authority. <br />Rev. 1:4 is correct. Rev. 1:18 and 5:6 reveal that Jesus is all 3.<br />He who was dead, who is alive, and who is to return, plus the 7 *spirits, plus Rev 1:5 "And (Even) from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood." For Mighty, see Mt 28:18.<br />The Crucified Lamb and the Ransom are high-lighted repeatedly in Rev. and Jesus is the first and the last Ransom, the Alpha and the Omega of God's entire plan of salvation. <br />*the spirits (messages) go forth to all the earth, and at the end of each message to each church we are told it is from THE spirit, Jesus.<br />When the foundation is properly seen, the rest will fall into place. <br />PS: God has been from forever - never was a time when he was not. Psa. 41:13; 90:2; 106:48. In Rev. "Was not" is clearly implied, and Rev. 1:18 identifies it as "was dead," showing it applies to Jesus.<br />Please do not erase.tobewanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05485354828741653368noreply@blogger.com