tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20817488736783511972024-03-17T20:04:12.024-07:00Jesus and Jehovah (Yahweh)This site's purpose is to respond to claims that Jesus is Jehovah/Yahweh by pointing out what the scriptures do say versus what people often imagine and assume.Ronald Dayhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01428695352830083280noreply@blogger.comBlogger304125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2081748873678351197.post-74612089004336484382024-03-16T10:22:00.000-07:002024-03-16T11:43:58.329-07:00 Isaiah 51:9; 53:1 – The Arm Of Jehovah (Working on)<p>Isaiah 51:9 – Awake, awake, put on strength, arm of Jehovah; awake, as in the days of old, the generations of ancient times. Isn’t it you who did cut Rahab in pieces, who pierced the monster?</p><p>Isaiah 53:1 – Who has believed our message? and to whom has the arm of Jehovah been revealed?</p><p>Most translations change the Holy Name to “the Lord”, making it read, “the arm of the Lord.” The American Standard, and some others, read, “the arm of Jehovah” or "arm of Yahweh". The English form "Jehovah" is based on the Masoretic Hebrew text, while the form "Jehovah" is based on a Greek form that is often transliterated as IAUE. The sounds attributed to these four vowels were read back into the Hebrew tetragrammaton of God's Holy Name to produce the Latin form "Yahweh".</p><p>The expression, “the arm of Jehovah,” is often thought to be a title of Jesus, and thus many automatically associate this expression with Jesus. Some have endeavored to show that the arm of Jehovah is God's Holy Spirit and that it is also Jesus, and in some vague manner this is supposed to prove the Holy Spirit is Jesus, or that the Holy Spirit as well as Jesus are both persons of the one God, Jehovah.</p><p>Indeed, the term can be used of Jesus in the sense that Jesus performs the work of his God. Nevertheless, in neither of these scriptures do we have reason to think that the Messiah being called the “arm” of Jehovah. When used figuratively in the Bible, the word “arm” usually signifies strength, power. In Psalm 10:15, for instance, we read: “Break the arm of the wicked.” It should be apparent that by “arm” it is speaking figuratively of the power of the wicked. In Ezekiel 30:21, Jehovah says: “I have broken the arm of Pharaoh king of Egypt.” By this He means the power of Pharaoh. There are many scriptures in the Bible that show that Jehovah's arm is used in the sense of strength, power, or as his power extended to deliver, etc. -- Exodus 6:6; 15:16; Deuteronomy 4:34; 5:15; 7:19; 11:2; 26:8; 2 Kings 17:36; Psalm 98:1; Isaiah 30:30,32; Jeremiah 48:25, Luke 1:51 and more.</p><p>Likewise, Isaiah 51:9 and Isaiah 53:1 are both speaking of the strength, the power of Jehovah. Neither of these scriptures directly apply the term “arm of Jehovah” to Jesus, although in Isaiah 53, Jehovah's arm, His strength and might is certainly exercises through the Messiah, in harmony with Isaiah 11:2,3; 61:1,2; Micah 5:4 and 1 Corinthians 8:6.</p><p>Awake, awake, put on strength, arm of Jehovah; awake, as in the days of old, the generations of ancient times. Isn’t it you who did cut Rahab in pieces, who pierced the monster? — Isaiah 51:9, World English Bible</p><p>Since Jehovah never sleeps, why would God’s people pray for his arm to “awake”? Matthew Henry’s comments are very applicable here: “He that keeps Israel neither slumbers nor sleeps; but, when we pray that he would awake, we mean that he would make it to appear that he watches over his people and is always awake to do them good. The arm of the Lord is said to awake when the power of God exerts itself with more than ordinary vigour on his people’s behalf. When a hand or arm is benumbed we say, It is asleep; when it is stretched forth for action, It awakes. God needs not to be reminded nor excited by us, but he gives us leave thus to be humbly earnest with him for such appearances of his power as will be for his own praise.”*<br />==========<br />*Henry, Matthew. “Commentary on Isaiah 51”. “Matthew Henry Complete Commentary on the Whole Bible”.</p><p>http://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/matthew-henry-complete/isaiah/51.html.</p><p>1706.</p><p>Likewise, the prayer requests the “arm of Jehovah” to “put on strength”. Certainly the idea is not that Jehovah’s arm was weakened so as to have need to be supplied strength from elsewhere; rather, it is an expression of readiness of power to accomplish a task.</p><p>The prayer is asking for Jehovah to use his strength to act “as he did in the days of old”, when Israel was delivered from Egypt, represented here as “Rahab”. — Isaiah 30:7.</p><p>Who has believed our message? and to whom has the arm of Jehovah been revealed? — Isaiah 53:1.</p><p>Who has discerned the arm, the power of Jehovah, and God’s great provision for man’s needs? This prophecy is concerning the message of Christ, for it is through Jesus that the arm, the power, of Jehovah is revealed. How many have truly comprehended the greatness of the length and the breadth and the height and the depth of the love of God expressed in Christ, which passes all understanding? (Ephesians 3:14-19; Philippians 4:7) The message of Jesus, although often presented through the distortions of man's creeds, has been proclaimed here and there for almost two thousand years, and while there have been many who have professed to have believed the message, in reality very few have appreciated the fullness of the message. Look out all over the world today and see how few there are who believe the message of God in respect to his great plan. The great majority are blinded by the adversary, the God of this world, who has blinded the minds of those who do not believe, lest the light of the goodness of God should shine into their hearts. (2 Corinthians 4:4) The apostle’s words imply that the great adversary is the one who is especially interested in beclouding the mind, and that God’s truth is the special thing intended to enlighten the mind, and that not everybody is in condition of mind to be profited by this great light that would shine forth.</p><p>The question asked by the prophet implies that only a few would truly believe the message, so that it would bring a genuine appreciation to their mind and heart. When we view the matter in the light of the eighteen centuries, and then think of how little faith there is today in the promises of God, we can well understand God’s standpoint in speaking through the prophet and saying, ‘Who is it that has believed?’ Practically nobody. We indeed see great churches, and sometimes fine buildings, often with large congregations and yet if we would inquire for the faith once delivered to the saints, if we inquire for an intelligent understanding of God’s great plan, how few would you find who have that understanding, who have delivered the message, who have accepted it, and who are upholding the faith once delivered to the saints.</p><p>What we do not find in Isaiah 51 or Isaiah 53 is that God is more than one person, or that God's Holy Spirit is a separate and distinct person of Jehovah, or that the Messiah is a person of his God, etc.<br /><br /><br /></p>Ronald Dayhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01428695352830083280noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2081748873678351197.post-33820882556913584512024-02-03T12:15:00.000-08:002024-02-03T12:15:12.621-08:00Jeremiah 1:5 - God's Foreknowledge of Jeremiah<p> <span></span></p><a name='more'></a><b>Before I formed you in the belly I knew you, and before you came forth out of the womb I sanctified you; I have appointed you a prophet to the nations. -- Jeremiah 1:5, <i>World English</i>.</b><p></p><br /><p></p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEj9yo6SREVzhBmvp0ABK6UuOF4nL5kG6SQ9NRwz9oaFEM18LVxiIokkUftiQYnvq-74XE7ebPevzBV_naoQWX3KYw1-4H4D2l1-Z_09yEHyk4_hiBrlL7C_Okys_WIDusl_ZX33oJ9euHudprSV82pZGIxhfta88FlGeVh8FCmr8XhDoyP-Z3SiWU6SflTH/s850/tuxpi.com.850-1706989851.jpg" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="502" data-original-width="1050" height="378" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEj9yo6SREVzhBmvp0ABK6UuOF4nL5kG6SQ9NRwz9oaFEM18LVxiIokkUftiQYnvq-74XE7ebPevzBV_naoQWX3KYw1-4H4D2l1-Z_09yEHyk4_hiBrlL7C_Okys_WIDusl_ZX33oJ9euHudprSV82pZGIxhfta88FlGeVh8FCmr8XhDoyP-Z3SiWU6SflTH/w640-h378/tuxpi.com.850-1706989851.jpg" width="640" /></a></div><br /><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;"><span style="text-align: left;">Jeremiah 1:5 is often cited by Unitarians who do not believe that Jesus existed before being born as a human being. The claim appears to be that the scriptures often referenced to regarding Jesus' prehuman existence should be considered the same as God's statement that he "knew" Jeremiah before Jeremiah was born. According to this reasoning, since no one believes that Jeremiah existed before he was begotten in the womb of his mother, therefore, likewise, we should not believe that Jesus existed before he was begotten in the womb of Mary.</span></div><p>God did indeed have a foreknowledge of Jeremiah before Jeremiah was born. Jesus did not, however, return to being in the foreknowledge of his God. (John 6:62) If the glory that Jesus had when he was with the only true God before the world of mankind was made was that of being in the foreknowledge of his God, then we should likewise expect that he now has the same glory of being the foreknowledge of God. -- John 17:1,3,5.</p><p>One should note that, regarding John 17:1,3,5, Jesus was speaking of a glory that he did not then have, for if he had it, he would not be asking his God and Father for the glory he had before the world of mankind had been made. Thus, in John 17, if the glory referred to is that being in God's foreknowledge, then it would mean that Jesus was asking again to receive the glory of being in God's foreknowledge. Actually, such would not fit very well with what Jesus actually stated. </p><p>Nevertheless, in a general sense, Jehovah has a foreknowledge of all His people. (Romans 8:29) David stated to Jehovah: "Your eyes saw my body. In your book they were all written, the days that were ordained for me, when as yet there were none of them." -- Psalm 139:16.</p><p></p>Jesus, however, is the only who has one descended from heaven so as to be able to tell of heavenly things. (John 3:12,13) Jeremiah is included in the phrase "no man has ascended to heaven". Jesus, however, descended from heaven and could tell of heavenly things, something that no other man can do.<p></p><p>One who accepts the words of Jesus, since they have not descended from heaven, can only tell of the things that Jesus himself tells us through the Bible. Unlike Jesus, however, Jeremiah did not descend from heaven, nor have any of Jesus' disciples descended from heaven.<br /><br />There is definitely nothing in Jeremiah 1:5 that means that Jesus was not actually with the only true God before the world of mankind had been made through him. -- John 1:1-3,10; 17:5.</p>Ronald Dayhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01428695352830083280noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2081748873678351197.post-14242635688410592302024-01-31T20:03:00.000-08:002024-01-31T20:03:01.161-08:00John 14:23 - God and Jesus Lives With Us<span>One has asked: </span><br />
<blockquote>
<span>John 14:23-24 - Jesus answered him, "If a man loves me, he will keep my word. My Father will love him, and we will come to him, and make our home with him. [24] He who doesn't love me doesn't keep my words. The word which you hear isn't mine, but the Father's who sent me.</span></blockquote>
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<span>WHY WOULD JESUS AND THE FATHER COME TO US AND MAKE THEIR DWELLING WITH A BELIEVER AFTER THE HOLY SPIRIT WILL BE SENT TO BE WITH MANKIND TOO?</span></blockquote>
<br /><span>John 14:23-24 - Jesus answered him, "If a man loves me, he will keep my word. My Father will love him, and we will come to him, and make our home with him. [24] He who doesn't love me doesn't keep my words. The word which you hear isn't mine, but the Father's who sent me.</span><br /><br /><span>In the midst of all the temptations and trials that beset us in our earthly pilgrimage we may recognize the voice of our God, saying, 'Do not be afraid. I am your shield, and your exceeding great reward' (Genesis 15:1), " Don't you be afraid, for I am with you; don't be dismayed, for I am your God." (Isaiah 41:10), and he voice of His Son, saying: "Where two or three are gathered together in my name, there I am in the midst of them" (Matthew 18:20), and "I am with you always, even to the end of the age." -- Mathew 28:20. </span><br /><br /><span>Since we see no reason why both Jesus and his God would not reside with a child oF God through God's Holy Spirit, I am not quite sure what is being asked. Evidently, what is being imagined and assumed is that there is something in Jesus' words that has something to do with the added-on trinitarian philosophy, or otherwise that Jesus is God (Supreme Mighty One, Supreme Being). </span><br /><br /><span>Actually, in harmony with John 14:1, Jesus was presenting only one person, his God and Father, as being the "one God of whom are all" (1 Corinthians 8:6). He says nothing at all to the effect that he is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, or that the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is more than one person. Indeed, verse 24 shows that he disclaims being the source of his own words. Verse 23 is in perfect agreement with verse 24 and also 1 Corinthians 8:6 and Hebrews 1:1,2. Jesus is not the source, the Supreme Being, but rather the instrument that the Supreme Being uses. Both Jesus and his God and Father are with the child of God through God's Holy Spirit. -- Ephesians 3:16; 2 Timothy 1:14; 1 John 3:24.</span><br /><br /><span>If the oneness idea is being read into what Jesus said, one should remember that authority to use God's Holy Spirit was given to Jesus from his God and Father (John 15:26; Acts 2:33); Jesus is not that Holy Spirit for Jesus offered himself to his God "through the eternal spirit." (Ephesians 1:3; 5:2; Hebrews 9:14) Jesus is neither God's Holy Spirit nor is he "his God."</span>Ronald Dayhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01428695352830083280noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2081748873678351197.post-13647903869143312812024-01-19T12:45:00.000-08:002024-01-19T12:47:51.937-08:00The Word "Things" in the Bible (Working on)<p>The word "thing(s)" has been added in Psalm 8:6; John 1:3; 1 Corinthians 8:6; 15:27; Ephesians 1:22; Colossians 1:16-20; Hebrews 2:8-10, and many, many other verses throughout the Bible. Forms of the Hebrew word often transliterated as KOL (Strong's Hebrew #S 3605,3606) and forms of the Greek word often transliterated as PAS (Strong's Greek #3956) rarely, if ever, in the Bible refer to absolutely everything in the universe (which actually would include God Himself), or even every created thing in the universe, although translators evidently add the word "things" evidently with the latter thought in mind. It is also the same with the Hebrew and Greek negative. </p><p>For instance in Hebrews 2:8, without adding the word "thing(s)", we read:</p><p>"You have put all in subjection under his feet."</p><p>For in that he subjected all to him, he left not one that is not subject to him. But now we don't see all subjected to him, yet.</p><p>This is indirectly quoting Psalm 8:6, which speaks of all that God has subjected to man. Hebrews 2:8, however, comments that God had not left one that was not subjected to man. In saying that God had not left one that was not subjected to man, does the scripture mean that the whole universe has been made subject to man? Obviously not! Psalm 8:7,8 briefly expresses what is included in "all" that was subjected to man:</p><p>All sheep and oxen, Yes, and the animals of the field, The birds of the sky, the fish of the sea, And whatever passes through the paths of the seas.</p><p>In other the all sentient living things on earth was subjected to man. Due to man's disobedience, however, we do not yet see all subjected to man. It is delayed until the ages to come.</p><p>In John 1:3, we find similar usage of forms of "pas" as in Hebrews 2:8. God made all through the Logos, and none were made without the Logos. Is the "all" here referring to absolutely every created thing in the universe? Obviously not. John 1:10 identifies what is being referring to as the world (KOSMOS) into which the Logos, the world that did not recognize the Logos. This is the same world (KOSMOS) that sin entered into through one man. (Romans 5:12-19) Jesus' body of flesh was specially prepared by his God (Hebrews 10:5), so that he, while in the days of his flesh (Hebrews 5:7), was not of this world condemned through Adam. Likewise, the new creature in Christ is begotten again apart from this world condemned through Adam, and is therefore not of this condemned world.</p><p>But the point is that "the beginning" and "all" in John 1:1-3 is referring, not to the creation of universe, but to the creation of the world of mankind, which God did through his firstborn creature. The invisible sons of God were already in existence at the beginning of the world that was made through the Logos. -- Job 38:4-7.</p><p>Likewise, in Colossians 1:16, all that God made through the firstborn son is not in reference to absolutely every created "thing", but rather to the creation of living one who are given dominion or a realm, the invisible sons of God in the heavens and the visible creation of man on the earth. </p><p>https://jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/p/jesus-and-creation.html </p>Ronald Dayhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01428695352830083280noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2081748873678351197.post-20362397946874084772024-01-19T10:07:00.000-08:002024-01-19T10:07:38.088-08:00Colossians 1:15,16 – Genitive and “For”<br />
By Ronald R. Day, Sr.<br />----This study has not yet been edited for this site. It needs to be formatted and links need to be added.<br />
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In response to some claims made concerning the usage of the genitive in Colossians 1:15, and the usage of “hoti” — for — in Colossians 1:16.<br />
It has been claimed that the genitive is used in many different ways, and it does not necessarily mean “included with”. It is claimed, among other things, that it can also mean “originating from,” which would actually mean that Christ was born of every creature. Those who would give it this meaning, however, often offset the verse by claiming that Jesus originated from God. For those who believe that Jesus is God, they might also add to this the false idea that if God begets, he only begets “God”, and thus that Jesus is “God” who beget him. One has claimed since he was born of God, that would mean that God is one of those creatures, but “Son of God” means that Christ originated from God, and not from creatures. This actually adds a bit of doubletalk to what Paul actually stated. Directly from what is stated as recorded in Colossians 1:15, the application of the gentitive with the meaning suggested would actually give Paul’s word’s the meaning that Jesus originated from, out of, all creation.<br />
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Please see:<br />
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Did Jesus Have a Beginning?<br />
Colossians 1:16 and the Creator<br />
Is Jesus the Creator?<br />
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From:<br />
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http://www.ntgreek.org/learn_nt_greek/classify-genitive.htm<br />
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J. Genitive of Source – Sometimes the genitive case indicates the source from which the head noun is derived or depends. The word `of’ could instead be translated `out of’, `derived from’, or `dependent on’. This use is relatively rare; rather source is often shown with the preposition ejk used with the genitive case.<br />
Another suggestion is that the genitive also sometimes means “ownership; belonging to,” as “the churches of Christ salute you” (Romans 16:16), corresponding with Matt 16:18, “I will build my church.” If this is the way Colossians 1:15 uses the genitive, it would mean that Christ belongs to every creature, which he certainly does not. Jesus, as firstborn, is not, indeed, owned by all creation. For all creation to have possession of Jesus would indeed have to be a very, extra-broad interpretation of this usage of the genitive in Colossians 1:15. In effect, it would have the present world of sinners, alienated from God, children of disobedience and wrath by nature (Ephesians 2:2,3), as having possession of Jesus in some way.<br />
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From:<br />
http://www.ntgreek.org/learn_nt_greek/classify-genitive.htm<br />
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Possessive Genitive – Showing the ideas of ownership or possession. To see if it is the Genitive of Possession, try substituting the word `of’ with `belonging to’ or `possessed by’. However, this use does not have to indicate actual, physical ownership of some property. It may be a broadly defined type of ownership. This is a very common use of the genitive. A possessive pronoun will often be used in the genitive case to show possession.<br />
Regardless, the evidence of the usage of the word “firstborn” all through the scriptures supports that firstborn of all creation in Colossians 1:15 is partitive genitive, not possessive genitive. Yes, Jesus is indeed, the firstborn creature.<br />
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It is also suggested that it means “like unto, or compared with,” (this is called the comparative genitive) such as “(Christ) is the image of the invisible God.” in the same verse. It is claimed that as Christ is the image of God (divine), inheriting God’s nature by being the offspring of God, and not one of those created beings with whom he is here compared. Only the context determines the way the genitive is to be understood. However, it is unclear as to how this could be applied to the phrase, “the firstborn of every creature,” except that one again offsets the application from “creation” to “God”, which, in effect, would actually deny what Paul actually stated. In reality, such an application would have Paul saying, “firstborn [more than/less than, greater than] ever creature.”<br />
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From:<br />
http://www.ntgreek.org/learn_nt_greek/classify-genitive.htm<br />
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Genitive of Comparison – This use of the genitive almost always comes after an comparative adjective (like `more’, `less’, `greater’, etc.). The customarily used `of’ translated with the genitive should instead be translated `than’. It is a relatively common use of the genitive case.<br />
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E.g. Matthew 3:1<br />
“ijscurovterov” mouv ejstin.”<br />
“He is mightier than I.”<br />
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Matthew 6:25<br />
“oujci; hJ yuchV plei’ovn ejstin th'” trofh'””<br />
“Is not your life (worth) more than food?”<br />
According to this Greek authority, this would exclude the genitive in Colossians 1:15 as speaking of a genitive of comparison.<br />
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Colossians 1:16<br />
hoti en autw ektisthee ta panta en tois<br />
BECAUSE IN HIM IT WAS CREATED THE ALL (THINGS) IN THE<br />
3754 1722 0846_5 2936 3588 3956 1722 3588<br />
ouranois kai epi tees gees ta horata kai<br />
HEAVENS AND UPON THE EARTH, THE (THINGS) VISIBLE AND<br />
3772 2532 1909 3588 1093 3588 3707 2532<br />
ta aorata eite thronoi eite kurioteetes eite<br />
THE (THINGS) INVISIBLE, WHETHER THRONES OR LORDSHIPS OR<br />
3588 0517 1535 2362 1535 2963 1535<br />
archai eite exousiai ta panta di autou<br />
GOVERNMENTS OR AUTHORITIES; THE ALL (THINGS) THROUGH HIM<br />
0746 1535 1849 3588 3956 1223 0846_3<br />
kai eis auton ektistai<br />
AND INTO HIM IT HAS BEEN CREATED;<br />
2532 1519 0846_7 2936<br />
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Westcott & Hort Interlinear, as obtained from the Bible Students DVD.<br />
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The usage of “for” [Greek often transliterated as "HOTI"] in Colossians 1:16, as in the King James Version, is often claimed to not be accruate, since it would give the thought that all were created through Jesus because of Jesus' being the "firstborn' of Colossians 1;15. Usually, it is further claimed from this that since Jesus is Jehovah, and that in some way, Jesus/Jehovah made himself the firstborn although he had never been brought forth into existence. <br /><br />While the word “HOTI” can refer back to what is said as the cause for what follows, most trinitarians insist that "HOTI" in verse 16 is telling us that BECAUSE Jesus is the Creator, the title of "firstborn" is given to Jesus. Jesus is indeed the firstborn because God created all things described in Colossians 1:16 by means of the firstborn, this does not mean that one person of Jehovah made another person of Himself firstborn because of this. "The all" described in Colossians 1:16 were created by means of him, this does not mean that Jesus was “made” the firstborn simply because of this, or that in some way firstborn does not mean the first one to born/brought forth of the group spoken of. It certainly would not give the word “firstborn” the meaning of being begotten outside of time, as many have claimed. All such thoughts would have to be added to, and read into what Paul said. Nor does the fact that Jesus is firstborn because through him God created all the things spoken of Colossians 1:16 negate the genitive partitive usage in Colossians 1:15, which would include Jesus as a member of the creation of which he is the firstborn. Jesus is the firstborn because he was already in existence as the firstborn before the creation that was made through him, and thus he was used by God as the means to create “the all” that is being spoken of. What distinguishes him from “ta panta” spoken of in verse 16 is that he is the firstborn creature.<br />
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Many read into Paul’s statement that Jesus is firstborn because he created TA PANTA — THE All, with idea that TA PANTA means the whole universe. Most translations ignore the Greek word "TA" and add the word "things", thus rendering TA PANTA as "all things." Nevertheless, the phrase “ta panta” is always limited by the context and evidence for inclusion and exclusion. It rarely, if ever, means “the universe” [which in its strictest defintion, “everything that exists”, would include God, since God does exist] as many have suggested. In the context here TA PANTA is limited to the intelligent creation, especially thrones, dominions, principalities, and powers. Certainly God’s own power and dominion was not created by Jesus. (1 Chronicles 29:11; Psalm 47:8; 103:19; Nahum 1:3) Thus we have at least this one exception to be applied to ta panta in Colossians 1:16. If we want to include all power indefinitely, then we should note that the power and authority given to Jesus by God is also not created by Jesus, but was given to him by the Most High, the only source of all power. (Luke 1:32; Matthew 28:18; John 3:35; 5:27; 1 Corinthians 15:27; Ephesians 1:20-22; Philippians 2:9) Now, we have two evident exclusions for the “TA PANTA” spoken of.<br />
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That panta in use of powers and dominions being spoken of are limited can be seen from the following application: The first man Adam was given dominion over — “all things” — and seeing that God “subjected all things to him, he left nothing that is not subject to him.” And yet, in actuality, not all things in the whole universe was subjected to man, but relative scriptures show what is included in the all that was subjected to man: the earth, the land and its animals. Spirit beings also, being a step higher than man, also have power, as given to them by God. (Genesis 1:26,28; Psalm 8:5-7; Hebrews 2:5-8.)<br />
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Yes, Jesus is firstborn because through him God created all the things spoken of in the context: dominions, powers, invisible and invisible, in heaven and in earth.<br />
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After the initial “hoti” clause in verse 16 other statements follow that show why Christ is called the firstborn creature, and are still related to the usage of “hoti”. In Colossians 1:17 we find that he is before the all that was just spoken of. Yes, this is indeed dealing with a time element, and not just a status element. Jesus was “before” the all spoken of, he is therefore the first creature to be brought forth into being. Then in Colossians 1:18 Jesus is spoken of as the “head”, which is, of course, the pre-eminent status, and yet it also refers to him as “the beginning”, which is another element of time. Jesus is firstborn because he is “the beginning” of God’s creation.<br />
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Next he is called “firstborn from the dead”. The parallel here should be obvious. Jesus was indeed the first one to be actually born — fully made alive — from the dead, never to die again. This is also a time element, that in all things he might have the preeminence. Thus, as “firstborn” in verse 18 is indeed a time element, so in verse 15 firstborn of all creation is also related to time.<br />
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One claims that if Christ was one of those created “things”, then Christ would created himself. No, this is a false idea that has to be read into what is said. As we have shown before, TA PANTA rarely, if ever, means absolutely everything that exists. If it did mean absolutely everything that exists in Colossians 1:16, then, God himself, and Jesus himself, would have to be included in what is said. Earlier we mentioned TA PANTA in reference to dominion, and referred to Psalm 8:5-7 in speaking of the dominion given to man. In Psalm 8:6, we read that God “put all things under his feet.” Does this mean that all things in the universe are put under the feet of puny man? Absolutely not! The following verses show what is meant by “all things”: “All sheep and oxen, Yes, and the animals of the field, The birds of the sky, the fish of the sea, And whatever passes through the paths of the seas. ” (Psalm 8:7,8) Thus “all things” is limited by context and evidence. When Paul quoted Psalm 8 in Hebrews 2:6-9, he uses “panta” and “ta panta”: “”You have put all things [PANTA] in subjection under his [man’s] feet.” For in that he subjected all things [TA PANTA] to him, he left nothing that is not subject to him. But now we don’t see all things subjected to him, yet.” (Hebrews 2:7) Man, when he sinned, to a great extent, lost the original dominion given to him over all things, thus Paul says that “now” we don’t see all things subjected to man, not yet. This implies that the time will come when all things will again be subjected to man. But our point here is that even though Paul says: “in that he [God] subjected all things [TA PANTA] to him [man], he [God] left nothing that is not subject to him [man].” As we have already seen, this entire expression is relative to what was being spoken of, that is, “the all” on the earth. Angels were not made subject to man, but Psalm 8:7,8 show what is included when Paul says that God “left nothing that is not subject to him.”<br />
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Likewise, in Colossians 1:16, TA PANTA is not speaking about absolutely everything in the universe, nor even about absolutely everything in the created universe. The rule of evidence shows that Jesus, as the firstborn creature, is not included. An example of this is found in 1 Corinthians 15:27, where Paul again used TA PANTA, but shows the “evident” exclusion of God himself as being subjected to Jesus.<br />
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Another question is asked: In verse 17 (Colossinas 1:17), it says “he (Christ) is before all things.” So if Christ is before all things, how could he be one of those created things which he is before and which he subsequently created? Most certainly, Jesus is not being included in TA PANTA — “the all” – – that is being referred to in Colossians 1:16. This does not mean that Jesus was not created before TA PANTA — the all — that is being referred to, as we have already shown.<br />
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Whatever made be said, however, we do not find anything in Colossians 1:15 or Colossians 1:16 about three persons in one God, or that Jesus is his God, or that Jesus is the Creator.<br />
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Related Studies<br />
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Without Jesus Absolutely Nothing Was Created?<br />
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Is Jesus Designated the Creator?Ronald Dayhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01428695352830083280noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2081748873678351197.post-63184281621986603192024-01-07T12:44:00.000-08:002024-01-07T21:05:35.357-08:00Acts 2:22-24 -- Jesus of Nazareth and God (Working on)<p>Acts 2:22 - "You men of Israel, hear these words. Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved by God to you by mighty works and wonders and signs which God did by him in the midst of you, even as you yourselves know, <br />Acts 2:23 - him, being delivered up by the determined counsel and foreknowledge of God, you have taken by the hand of lawless men, crucified and killed; <br />Acts 2:24 - whom God raised up, having freed him from the agony of death, because it was not possible that he should be held by it. -- World English.</p><p>Some trinitarians and some others may present Acts 2:22-24 as proof of the trinity, or as proof that Jesus is God Almighty, or possibly as proof of the alleged dual natures of Christ (hypostatic union). As yet, we haven't actually found any explanation as to how the words recorded in Acts 2:22,23 offers any proof that Jesus is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, or that God is more than one person, or that Jesus is fully God (Supreme Being) and fully man (human being) at the same time.</p><p>In reality, "God" is presented as being only one person in these verses and Jesus is not presented as being "God" but rather the man through whom God performed miracles.</p><p>Evidently, the claim is that Acts 2:22 means that God is in Christ, and from this it is evidently imagined and assumed that Acts 2:21 is referring to their imagined and assumed assertion that Jesus is both fully God and fully man (dual natures of Christ, hypostatic union). 2 Corinthians 5:19; John 10:37,38 and John 14:7-11 are cited to support this imagined and assumed assertion. Of course, any idea of that Jesus had two natures at the same time has also to be imagined and assumed and then added to what is written in all the scriptures, since no such idea is presented in any of the scriptures cited.</p><p>In 2 Corinthians 5:18,19, "God" is only one person, and Jesus is the instrument that God uses to reconcile the world to Himself. John 10:37,38; 14:10,11 shows that Jesus is in God and that God is Jesus. However, said that his disciples are in him and that he is in his disciples, and prayed for his followers to be one in himself and his Father (John 17:21) He was not saying that his followers would be God Almighty as he is [allegedly] God Almighty. See our study: "<a href="https://jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/2017/04/godinchrist.html" target="_blank">God in Christ</a>".<br /><br />God willing, we will add an examination of claims related to "it was not possible that he should be held by it" later, and possibly some other claims.</p><p>Related to the scriptures above, some trinitarians will begin to cite many scriptures which they claim shows Jesus to be God Almighty, such as Mark 2:7; John 1:1; John 8:58; John 20:28; Hebrews 1:6; Hebrews 1:10, and many other scriptures. Of course, in none of these scriptures do we find that Jesus is identified as being Jehovah, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. As usually, one has created many assumptions beyond what is written and then add to those assumptions to, and read those assumptions into the scriptures in order to make the scriptures appear to be saying that Jesus is Jehovah, or that Jesus is a person of Jehovah, etc. Since we have examined most, if not all, the scriptures often presented elsewhere, we will not do such again here, but we refer one to our resources pages related to "<a href="https://jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/p/is-jesus-god.html" target="_blank">Is Jesus God?</a>"</p>Ronald Dayhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01428695352830083280noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2081748873678351197.post-2729373939290730222023-12-20T07:19:00.000-08:002023-12-20T07:19:03.419-08:00Isaiah 6:3; Revelation 4:8 – Thrice Holy<p></p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjZotnuhuW13YhtTYFK4newhSe5AWRRwZ3KgwTg1r-0qO7z0CthqQTBSrB1ZSxzsB2HjR558OCufQnMgvArgAeYnVmyMJW75Wl4XUAsqKqmwUlZpRyc0ct3Hj12suT-cnh39oCG9ThLbclNPClejEu5k5R-rLOWJIBki_QAZ5XsLtpTcQVILxhZZGPpJpb4/s2048/CB-12%20-%20w%20border.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1566" data-original-width="2048" height="153" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjZotnuhuW13YhtTYFK4newhSe5AWRRwZ3KgwTg1r-0qO7z0CthqQTBSrB1ZSxzsB2HjR558OCufQnMgvArgAeYnVmyMJW75Wl4XUAsqKqmwUlZpRyc0ct3Hj12suT-cnh39oCG9ThLbclNPClejEu5k5R-rLOWJIBki_QAZ5XsLtpTcQVILxhZZGPpJpb4/w200-h153/CB-12%20-%20w%20border.jpg" width="200" /></a></div>Revelation 4:8 – and the four living creatures, having each one of them six wings, are full of eyes around about and within. They have no rest day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy is [Yahweh] God, the Almighty, who was and who is and who is to come.<p></p><p>Isaiah 6:3 – One cried to another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is Yahweh of Hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.</p><p>These scriptures are sometimes cited as supporting the trinitarian dogma, since each uses the word “holy” three times.</p><p>This has to be Jehovah, the God of Jesus, referred to in Revelation 4:8, since this One is spoken of as one person in Revelation 5:1 as the One holding the scroll in His right hand. In Revelation 5:7 we find that the Lamb, Jesus, takes the scroll out of the hand of the one sitting on the throne. This shows that the one sitting on the throne, called “the Lord [Jehovah] God, The Almighty, who was and who is and who is to come” in Revelation 4:8 is indeed only one person, the God and Father of Jesus, and not Jesus himself.</p><p>The phrase “who was and who is and who is to come” is simply another way of saying the same thing as “from everlasting to everlasting” as found in Psalm 90:2. Only the God of Jesus is Almighty. Only the God of Jesus is “from everlasting to everlasting.” Jesus is not being made the “Almighty God” in the power and authority given him by the only true Almighty. (Matthew 28:18) It is evident that the power and authority given to Jesus is from One who is more powerful than the power and authority given. (1 Corinthians 15:27) If Jesus actually had been made the Almighty, this would mean that there are two Supreme Beings, but that only one of them had been Almighty from eternity past, since the other had to be made Almighty by the other. In reality, only Jehovah, the God and Father of Jesus, is the Almighty. Jesus is, always has been and will always be, of a lesser glory in his bodily substance than Jehovah, his God. Jehovah is the only one who has the distinct glory as the Most High. — 1 Corinthians 15:40,41.</p><p>In Revelation 1:9,10, John refers to himself when he heard a loud voice, as of a trumpet, (verse 11) saying, “Write what you see…” This quote is from Jesus, not Jehovah, as described in the following verses. In verse 18 Jesus says: “I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore.” Jesus was actually dead and not alive anywhere, if this is to make any sense at all, for he contrasts his being dead with being alive forevermore. Now we know that God cannot die, so Jesus is thus by this verse proved to not be God Almighty.</p><p>What has to be added to, and read into Revelation 4:8 to have this support the trinitarian dogma, is that one of the words “holy” represents the God and Father of Jesus, while and another instance of the word “holy” represents the God-Son of the God and Father of Jesus, and that other instance of “holy” represents the holy spirit of the God and Father of Jesus. Since Revelation 4:8 also attributes all three usages of “holy” to the One who was and who is and who is to come, that is, the One who is depicted as sitting on the throne (Revelation 4:9), then the trinitarian has to add some explanation, and read whatever explanation they give into, the scriptures since the Lamb is depicted as taking the scroll from this One who was and who is and who is to come. (Revelation 5:6,7) Usually, however, we find no explanation given for the self-contradiction. Some simply explain the self-contradiction as one of the “mysteries” of the trinity.</p><p>In actuality, the Lamb who approaches the One who was and who is and who is to come in order to take the scroll from that One is not that One from whom he takes the scroll. Rather than proving the trinitarian dogma, Revelation 4:8,9 associated with Revelation 5:6,7 shows that the trinity dogma is not true. Only the One who is depicted as sitting on the throne, the One who was and who is and who is to come is the Almighty. Jesus is never depicted as the “Almighty” from whom Jesus, the Lamb, receives the scroll. This corresponds with Revelation 1:1, where we read that God gave to Jesus the revelation so that Jesus could give it to John.</p><p>Why, then, is the word “holy” repeated three times?</p><p>Some point out that the Sinaitic Manuscript and some others have holy eight times in this verse; if this was the way John originally received the revelation, then the word “holy” is used of the God and Father of Jesus eight times! Thus some point out the significance of the number eight as used in the Bible: The Jewish child was circumcised on the eighth day (Genesis 17:12; Leviticus 12:3; Luke 1:59; Philippians 3:5) signifying purification and holiness of heart (Exodus 6:12; Deuteronomy 10:16; 30:6; Matthew 12:34); seven days a sheep was to be with its dam, and on the eighth given to Yahweh (Exodus 22:30); the eighth day after the seven days of Feast of Tabernacles was to be a holy convocation to Yahweh. (Leviticus 23:36,39) Eight signifies the day following the seven days of the week, the day of renewal, and thus many believe that eighth day signifies the 1,000 years to follow Christ’s millennial reign, for then all things will have been completely been made new, but not this only, but that all things will have been brought to full perfection. ( Revelation 21:1-5) Thus it is thought the eight instances of “holy” signify Jehovah’s actual perfect holiness, his absolute purity, which will be eventually be revealed in the ages to come.</p><p>However, the corresponding scripture in Isaiah 6:3 only has holy three times, not eight times, so we feel pronged to believe that in Revelation 4:8, the original also only had “holy” only three times.</p><p>Nevertheless, to many trinitarians, the “thrice holy” is thought in some vague manner to mean the trinity, as mentioned above.</p><p>There is no “and” in these three declarations that Jehovah is holy, neither in the Hebrew nor the Greek. For emphasis, Jehovah is “thrice” pronounced as holy, but it is not that Jehovah is “thrice holy”, or holy three times. It is similar to:</p><p>Ezekiel 21:27 – I will overturn, overturn, overturn it: this also shall be no more, until he come whose right it is; and I will give it [him].</p><p>God is not saying that he will overturn the prince of Israel (evidently Zedekiah) three times; he is repeating the word for emphasis. It appears the usage of the word three times is used to designate the superlative degree, not to emphasize what is being spoken of as being three times. There is definitely no scriptural reason to think Jehovah would overturn prince of Israel one time as God the Father, and another time as the alleged God the Son, and another time as the alleged God the Holy Spirit.</p><p>Regarding Ezekiel 21:27:</p><p></p><blockquote>The threefold repetition denotes the awful certainty of the event; not as ROSENMULLER explains, the overthrow of the three, Jehoiakim, Jeconiah, and Zedekiah; for Zedekiah alone is referred to. -- Fausset, A. R., A.M. “Commentary on Ezekiel 21”. “Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible”. 1871.</blockquote><p></p><p>Likewise in Isaiah 6:3 and Revelation 4:8. There is no reason to add to Isaiah 6:3 that the seraphs were saying that Jehovah is three persons: Holy Father and Holy Son and Holy Spirit. Holy is repeated for emphasis.</p><p>Regardless, the thought of three persons being spoken of in Revelation 4:8 or Isaiah 6:3 has to be assumed, added to, and read into the three times that the word “holy” appears in those verses.<br /><br /></p>Ronald Dayhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01428695352830083280noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2081748873678351197.post-33869526446384569652023-12-19T16:58:00.000-08:002023-12-19T18:10:43.336-08:00Riding the Clouds (working on)<p>The following scriptures are presented as an alleged proof that Jesus is Jehovah, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob: Deuteronomy 33:26, Psalm 18:9-10, Psalm 68:4, Psalm 104:3, Isaiah 19:1; Daniel 7:13,14; Matthew 26:64-65; Revelation 1:8. (Related scriptures: Matthew 16:27; 24:30; 25:31; Luke 21:27) Obviously, there is nothing in any of these scriptures that clearly identify Jesus as being Jehovah, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, who spoke through the prophets of old. -- Hebrews 1:1,2.<br /><br />Evidently, it is being imagined and assumed that because Jesus is spoken of as coming in a cloud, that this means that Jesus is Jehovah who is spoken of riding the clouds in the Old Testament. This is like saying because the scriptures say that Moses led the children of Israel out of Egypt, this means that Moses is Jehovah who is also said to have led the children of Israel out of Egypt. -- (need scriptures).<br /><br />More will be added, later, God willing.<br /><br />The following links contain material pertaining to Deuteronomy 33:26 we intend to respond to. This is for our own reference and we may respond to some things stated; we do not necessarily agree with what is presented by the authors:<br /><br />https://spoiledmilks.com/2016/01/07/daniel-7-cloud-rider-unseen-realm-heiser/<br />https://streettheologian.medium.com/was-jesus-god-10-uncommon-considerations-4403ab56296f<br />https://www.facebook.com/HebrewRootsHeresy/photos/a.779266598755772/2461424033873345/?type=3<br />https://marshillapologetics.ca/jesusclaim<br /><br /></p><p><br /></p>Ronald Dayhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01428695352830083280noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2081748873678351197.post-65357863890398973752023-12-08T08:40:00.000-08:002023-12-08T08:40:29.605-08:00Eight Points Alleged to Prove the Trinity Doctrine (working on)<p>(This work is in progress; we will, God willing, be working on this a little at a time until it is finished. -- Ronald R. Day, Sr.)</p><p>We will be here addressing the claim of one who has presented a list of scriptures that are alleged to prove the trinity doctrine. We started this several years ago, and evidently never completed it. Evidently, the presentation to which we are responding is no longer on the internet, so we are responding solely to the notes we took. We will mostly be addressing the scriptures pertaining to God's Son. In many cases, we may only provide links to where the scriptures are discussed.</p><p>While God's Holy Spirit is never presented in the Bible as being a person of God, His Holy Spirit is likened to God's figurative finger and His figurative mouth. What is done by a person's finger is what is done by the person. What is said by one's mouth is what is said by the person to whom that mouth belongs. Likewise, with God and His Holy Spirit. While this does not necessarily prove that God's Holy Spirit is NOT a person, on the other hand, it does prove that the usage of such language regarding the Holy Spirit does not prove that God's Holy Spirit is a person, or that God's Holy Spirit is wholly and fully God as an alleged third person of God. Nevertheless, what is done to a person's finger is done to the person to whom that finger belongs. What is spoken back to the words of one's mouth is what is spoken back to the person to whom that mouth belongs to.</p><p><b>Point #1: Creation of the Universe</b> </p><p>This is presented as being one of the "strongest" proofs of the trinity. The idea apparently is to allegedly prove that God's Spirit, God and God's Son all created the universe, and, thus, because of this, we should imagine, assume, add to and read into the scriptures that God is more than one person, and that he is three persons, etc.</p><p>Evidently, the following scriptures are supposed to prove that God's Holy Spirit created the universe: Psalm 104:29,30; Job 33:4. It is evidently imagined and assumed that this means the God's Holy Spirit is a person of God, and thus the imagined and assumed third person of the alleged triune God. Nothing in these scriptures, however, mentions the creation of the "universe". <br /><br /><b>Psalm 104:29,30</b><br /><br />We do find the word "spirit" (<a href="https://biblehub.com/hebrew/7307.htm" target="_blank">Strong's 7307</a>) mentioned in Psalm 104:29,30 in connection with the taking away of human life, and the returning of human life. The Hebrew word for spirit is used with various applications; it is not always referring to God's Holy Spirit. <br /><br />While we are sure that God does make use of his Holy Spirit is the giving and the taking away of life, we do not find God's Holy Spirit mentioned in Psalm 104:29,30. In the Bible, the Hebrew word for "spirit", is used with different applications, and simply because we see a form of the Hebrew word often transliterated as "rûach" being used, it does not necessarily mean that God's Holy Spirit is being referred to.<br /><br />There is nothing in Psalm 104:29,30 about the creation of the universe; it is actually speaking of man's death and his being restored to life.</p><p>See our studies:<br /><a href="https://ransomforall.blogspot.com/2022/08/gen2-7.html" target="_blank">Neshamah</a><br /><a href="https://ransomforall.blogspot.com/2022/08/eccl12-7.html" target="_blank">The Spirit that Returns to God</a></p><p><b>Job 33:4<br /></b><b>The Spirit of God has made me, And the breath of the Almighty gives me life. </b></p><p>Here, the Hebrew word often transliterated as "ruach" is evidently being used to designate God's Holy Spirit.</p><p>God surely made use of his Holy Spirit in creation; that does not mean that we need to imagine, assume, add to, and read into the scriptures that God is more than one person, and further imagine, assume, add to, and read into the scriptures that God's Holy Spirit is a separate and distinct person from Himself, etc.</p><p>What we do not find in any of the scriptures listed is any thought that God is more than one person, or that God's Holy Spirit is a separate and distinct person of Himself. All such has to be imagined beyond what is written, and then added to and read into what is written. <br /><br /><b>Acts 3:15</b></p><p><b>And the Prince of the life ye did kill, whom God did raise out of the dead, of which we are witnesses. -- Young's Literal</b>.</p><p>This is one of the scriptures that is supposed to show that Jesus is the "Creator of the universe". Again, we find nothing about the creation of the universe in this verse, but we do find that many translations present Jesus as being "the prince of life", "the author of life," etc. Evidently, what is being imagined and assumed is that such an expression designates Jesus as being the ultimate source of life, and thus that Jesus is the ultimate source of the creation of the universe, etc.</p><p>The one who presented this, however, claims that the JWs' New World Translation supports that Jesus is the creator of the universe. While we are not with the JWs, we looked up how the New World Translation renders this:</p><p><b>Whereas you killed the Chief Agent of life. But God raised him up from the dead, of which fact we are witnesses.</b></p><p>The word rendered "prince" above in most translations is a compound word that roughly means chief or first leader. It can refer to chief source. It is used again in Acts 5:31 regarding how the one person who is God exalted Jesus. It is used again in Hebrews 2:10, designating Jesus as the first or chief over salvation. It is also used in Hebrews 12:2 in reference to Jesus as being the chief leader and perfecter of the faith of those who belong to Christ. In none of these instance, however, does the usage of this word of Jesus designate Jesus as being his God, Jehovah, or as being a person of his God, Jehovah.</p><p>Since Jesus proved his faithfulness and has been highly exalted by his God, Jehovah (Micah 5:4; Ephesians 1:3,17-23; Philippians 2:8,9), and since God has given to Jesus the authority and power to give life to others, then Jesus becomes the instrument of God as to give life to believers in this age as well as to all of redeemed mankind. -- Matthew 28:19; John 5:19-21,25; 11:25; 12:47,48; 14:6; 17:2; 20:31; Romans 5:12-19,21; 6:23; 1 Corinthians 15:21,22,45; 1 John 2:2; 4:9. </p><p>Jesus' being God's instrument in salvation, of course, does not remove Jesus' God (Micah 5:4: Ephesians 1:3) from being the ultimate source of all life. (1 Timothy 6:13; 1 John 5:11) It was Jesus' God, Jehovah (Micah 5:4), the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (Acts 3:13), who raised Jesus from the dead, as reported not only in Acts 3:15, but also in Acts 2:24,32,26; 4:10; 10:40; 13:30,33,37; 17:31; Romans 4:24; 8:11; 10:9; 1 Corinthians 6:14; 15:15; Galatians 1:1; Colossians 2:11,12; 1 Thessalonians 1:9,10; 1 Peter 1:21; 3:18. Jehovah is, therefore, the source of Jesus' life, power and authority. **** needs editing</p><p><br /></p><p><b>John 1:1-3</b></p><p>Two things are usually read into these verses so as to make them appear to be speaking of two persons of a trinune God. 1) It is claimed that the usage of the Greek word often transliterated as THEOS as applied to the Logos proves that Jesus is God Almighty, and verse 3 presents Jesus as being the Creator. Actually, since Jesus is not "one God" from whom are all (1 Corinthians 8:6), the default reasoning should be, not imagine and assume that THEOS as applied "the Word" means God Almighty, but rather that is a Hebraism referring to Jesus in more general sense of might, power, strength. Likewise, the Greek text does not designate Jesus as being the source of the creation of the world of mankind, but as the instrument used in the creation of the world of mankind. Since we have discussed this in detail in other studies, we will not repeat such here, but we invite to see our <a href="https://jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/p/john.html#john1-1" target="_blank">Links to studies related to John 1:1-3</a>.<br /><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>Colossians 1:15,16</p><p>Acts 3:15</p><p>In Acts 3:15, as well as throughout Acts 3, only one person is identified as being the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and Jesus is distinguished from being the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob throughout. Jesus is the first or chief leader (archegos, Strong's #747) in life, being the first and the last firstborn from the dead. It is because of his faithfulness til death that the one person who his God exalted Jesus to the highest position in the universe, excluding the position of being the Most High himself </p><p><br /></p><p>- God (Gen 1:1-3; Isa 45:18; Acts 17:24-26)</p><p>2) Raised Jesus from the dead</p><p>- Christ (Jn 2:18-19; Jn 10:18)</p><p>- Spirit (Rom 8:11)</p><p>- God (1 Cor 6:14; Act 13:33-37)</p><p>3) Are Baptized into</p><p>- Trinity (Matt 28:19)</p><p>- Christ (Gal 3:27; Act 2:38; Rom 6:3)</p><p>- Spirit (Matt 3:11; Act 1:5, 8:16-17, 1 Cor 12:12-13)</p><p>4)Are the image from which man was created</p><p>- God’s Spirit (2 Cor 3:16-17)</p><p>- Jesus (Rom 8:29)</p><p>- God (Gen 1:27)</p><p>5)Is the Spirit that dwells in believers </p><p>- Rom 8:9-11</p><p>6)The “alpha and omega,” the “first and the last”</p><p>- Jesus (Rev 1:17-18, 2:8, Rev 22:12-13,16) </p><p>- God (Isa 44:6; Rev 1:8)</p><p>7)Above the angels</p><p>- God and Jesus (Heb 5-12 // Psalms 104:4, 45:6-7, and 102:25-27)</p><p>8)Birthed Jesus into the world</p><p>- Spirit (Matt 1:18)</p><p>- Jesus (Phil 2:7)</p><p>- God (Gal 4:4)</p><div><br /></div>Ronald Dayhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01428695352830083280noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2081748873678351197.post-50321198611067658102023-12-07T16:59:00.000-08:002023-12-15T15:16:26.409-08:00Job 19:25-27 – Job’s Redeemer And Seeing God<p style="text-align: justify;"></p><div style="text-align: center;"><span><a name='more'></a></span>(This study needs some editing)</div><br />The question has been presented in another forum, Who was Job’s redeemer? It is then claimed that Job 19:26 specificially answers that question, and, with this assumption, the thought is that Jesus is God, since it is claimed that it will be Jesus that Job will see.<p></p>
<p>Many see “trinity” in this verse, although actually there is nothing at all about a triune God presented here are anywhere else in the Bible. Any thought of a triune God has to be imagined, assumed, added to, and read into Job 19:25-27.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Job 19:25 But as for me, I know that my Redeemer(a) lives.(b) In the end, he will stand [arise, be established – same word used in Deuteronomy 18:18(c)] upon the earth.<br />
Job 19:26 After my skin is destroyed, Then in my flesh shall I see God,<br />
Job 19:27 Whom I, even I, shall see on my side. My eyes shall see, and not as a stranger. “My heart is consumed within me.”<br />
=======<br />
(a) <a href="http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/hebrew/kjv/gaal.html" target="_blank">http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/hebrew/kjv/gaal.html</a><br />
(b) <a href="http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/hebrew/kjv/quwm.html" target="_blank">http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/hebrew/kjv/quwm.html</a><br />
(c) <a href="http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/hebrew/kjv/chay.html" target="_blank">http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/hebrew/kjv/chay.html</a><br /><br /><br /></p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiqC63rCmDHJ-52jFW85zT3McUm73TlyJ23NALXS-mw2kNVBbvHpxvy7u27mbD1d522kbaAhdY6f3rwAgceAQ0KtnYEmmqeRTSreQ12FaPx8sSWwNJK46hDM6UXDhyphenhyphenk3hi3g8xnhm1_pNcZAxaFIHyYRUJ-qA8f4YV8noZcR-n9tAVeHq7jZaDMr-lrqu2H/s783/Untitled.jpg" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="101" data-original-width="783" height="51" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiqC63rCmDHJ-52jFW85zT3McUm73TlyJ23NALXS-mw2kNVBbvHpxvy7u27mbD1d522kbaAhdY6f3rwAgceAQ0KtnYEmmqeRTSreQ12FaPx8sSWwNJK46hDM6UXDhyphenhyphenk3hi3g8xnhm1_pNcZAxaFIHyYRUJ-qA8f4YV8noZcR-n9tAVeHq7jZaDMr-lrqu2H/w400-h51/Untitled.jpg" width="400" /></a><a href="http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/Hebrew_Index.htm" style="text-align: left;" target="_blank">http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/Hebrew_Index.htm</a></div>
<p style="text-align: justify;">As one should be able to realize from the interlinear rendering above, the Hebrew is not exactly what is presented in most English translations. See also <a href="https://biblehub.com/text/job/19-25.htm" target="_blank">Bible's Hub's analysis</a>. Most translations in English take some liberties regarding Job 19:25 in translation; indeed, the translators have to adjust it in order have it make sense in English. The word “redeemer” in English is a noun, however, in the Hebrew, we do not find a noun, but rather a verb with the pronoun attached, most literally, he [who] redeems me, or the one [who] redeems me. Most translations render the Hebrew word “chay/chi” (Strong’s 2416) in some verb form. Actually, the word “chay” is an adjective describing someone as being “alive” or “living”. Some translations add the verb “is” before “living”, making read, “I know my redeemer is living”.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">First we need to note that there is nothing in these verses that give any indication that Jehovah is more than one person; there is nothing stated to the effect that Jesus is Jehovah; any such thoughts have to be assumed and read into what is being stated.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Job later stated to Jehovah: “now my eye sees you.” (Job 42:5) In reality, no man can actually see the substance of God Himself and live; Job had not physicaly seen the substance of God, thus he was speaking of seeing with his mental eyes.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">As best as we can determine, Job expresses that he knows that His redeemer lives; he does not say who he was referring as redeeming him. If Job was referring to Jehovah (Yahweh) as his redeemer, yes, his redeemer was then living. More than likely, Job was indeed referring to God, although it is possible that he may have been referring to coming of Jesus. Of course, Jesus, also, was then living with his God and Father in heaven (John 17:5), but we do not know that Job had knowledge of such. Nevertheless, Job, had surely heard of God’s promise of a redeemer, the seed of the woman (Genesis 3:15), the seed of Abraham, who was foretold to deliver mankind and bring forth the blessings of all the nations. (Genesis 28:14) The Hebrew is not as tense-oriented as we find things in English. In supplying forms of the verb “to be” a translator could supply the present tense when it may be actually referring to the future. Job could have been given special knowledge that Jesus was already alive, but this appears to be highly unlikely. At the time that Job spoke the words recorded in Job 19, he had not yet heard and seen that which God later spoke to him. Yet, by faith, he surely looked forward to the coming time when his redeemer would come and arise over the earth.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">While the Hebrew does not actually state the redeemer was to “stand” on the earth, in the first century, we know that Jesus did come in these latter times (Hebrews 1:2) and he physically stood upon the earth back in the earth. Having now sacrificed his body of flesh for our sins (Hebrews 10:10; 1 Peter 3:18), we have no reason to believe that Jesus will physically stand upon the earth again with such a body of flesh, although it is possible that he could do similar to the way that angels appeared a “men” at various times.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Regarding applying this to Jesus as being future, some may object that since Job uses the present tense, that this could not apply to then yet coming Messiah, and that Job did not have knowledge that Jesus was then existing. Biblical Hebrew does not have tenses; in English, however, we express practically everythng as related to time. Biblical Hebrew does not do this. Thus, Job could have been have been speaking of the one yet to come, in whom was life, a life that could be given to God for the deliverance of mankind from the condemnation of death. — John 1:4; Matthew 20:28; Mark 10:45; Ephesians 5:2.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Notice, however, Young’s translation renders Isaiah 11:6-9:</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">6 And a wolf hath sojourned with a lamb, And a leopard with a kid doth lie down, And calf, and young lion, and fatling [are] together, And a little youth is leader over them. 7 And cow and bear do feed, Together lie down their young ones, And a lion as an ox eateth straw. 8 And played hath a suckling by the hole of an asp, And on the den of a cockatrice Hath the weaned one put his hand. 9 Evil they do not, nor destroy in all My holy mountain, For full hath been the earth with the knowledge of Jehovah, As the waters are covering the sea.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">However, most translators put this in the future tense:</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">6 And the wolf shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. 7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together; and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. 8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the adder’s den. 9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain; for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of Jehovah, as the waters cover the sea. — American Standard Version.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Job, however believed that even though his flesh be destroyed, he would yet in his flesh be able to see God. This lends support to the idea that Job was NOT speaking of Jesus, but of Jehovah himself, and of the age to come, after Satan is abyssed, and all nations will then learn the ways of Jehovah. — Isaiah 2:2-4; Revelation 20:3.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">If Job was speaking of Jehovah as being the Redeemer, we certainly should not expect that Jehovah Himself will physically stand on the earth, and that people will be able to look upon the Most High. (Exodus 33:20; John 1:18) In Exodus 17:6, Jehovah used the same Hebrew word for “stand” as Job used in Job 19:25. Jehovah said to Moses: “Behold, I will stand before thee there upon the rock in Horeb; and thou shalt smite the rock, and there shall come water out of it, that the people may drink.” (ASV) Was Jehovah there in some physical body standing before Moses? No, we have no reason to think so; but we would should rather reason that by “stand” Jehovah meant His invisible spiritual presence.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Nevertheless, God is the redeemer in the sense that he is source of redemption, and He will certainly become established throughout the whole earth in that the knowledge of His glory will indeed fill the earth. Jehovah redeems man by means of his son, who is to deliver man out of the condition of sin and back into harmony with God. With such redemption, one can then “see” God, that is, mentally comprehend things pertaining to God which he could not otherwise comprehend. Job knew that such would come when he is raised in the day of the resurrection.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Job stated:</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Job 14:1 “Man who is born of woman Is of few days and full of trouble.<br />
Job 14:2 He comes forth like a flower and fades away; He flees like a shadow and does not continue.<br />
Job 14:3 And do You open Your eyes on such a one, And bring me to judgment with Yourself?<br />
Job 14:4 Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? No one!<br />
Job 14:5 Since his days are determined, The number of his months is with You; You have appointed his limits, so that he cannot pass.<br />
Job 14:6 Look away from him that he may rest, Till like a hired man he finishes his day.<br />
Job 14:7 “For there is hope for a tree, If it is cut down, that it will sprout again, And that its tender shoots will not cease.<br />
Job 14:8 Though its root may grow old in the earth, And its stump may die in the ground,<br />
Job 14:9 Yet at the scent of water it will bud And bring forth branches like a plant.<br />
Job 14:10 [And]* man dies and is laid away; Indeed he breathes his last And where is he?<br />
Job 14:11 As water disappears from the sea, And a river becomes parched and dries up,<br />
Job 14:12 So man lies down and does not rise. Till the heavens are no more, They will not awake Nor be roused from their sleep.<br />
Job 14:13 “Oh, that You would hide me in the grave, That You would conceal me until Your wrath is past, That You would appoint me a set time, and remember me!<br />
Job 14:14 If a man dies, shall he live again? All the days of my hard service I will wait, Till my change comes.<br />
Job 14:15 You shall call, and I will answer You; You shall desire the work of Your hands.<br />
Job 14:16 For now You number my steps, But do not watch over my sin.<br />
Job 14:17 My transgression is sealed up in a bag, And You cover my iniquity. — New King James<br />
=====<br />
*The NKJV puts “But”, whereas this should be “And”.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Job expessed here the hope of the resurrection, that man will live again, that he will be changed from his present condition, which hope he applied to himself. When a man dies, generally speaking, except that there be some intervention, he does not rise back up as long the present heavens last. However, the scriptures show that the present heavens are to pass away (Matthew 5:18; 24:35; Mark 13:31; Luke 16:17; 21:33; 2 Peter 3:10), and that there will be new heavens to follow. (2 Peter 3:13; Revelation 21:1-5) Thus, it will in the time of the new heavens that God will call, through his Son, Jesus, and Job will answer, and will be brought back to life with a terrestrial, physical body. (1 Corinthians 15:40) Then Job, in the flesh at that time, will see the glory of Jehovah by means of the knowledge of glory of Jehovah that will then fill the whole earth. — Isaiah 6:3; 11:9; 40:5; Habakkuk 2:14.</p>
<p style="text-align: justify;">Nothing in any of this means that we need to read into this that Jesus is Jehovah, nor is there any need to imagine and assume that Jehovah is more than one person.</p>
<p style="text-align: right;">Originally published December 2013; edited, updated, and republished August 2014.</p>
<p><strong>Related:</strong></p>
<p><a href="https://jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/2017/03/john14-7.html" target="_blank">Seeing the Father in Jesus</a><br />
<a href="https://prophecy-rlbible.blogspot.com/2018/07/jon14-19.html" target="_blank">The World Will See Me No More</a><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p>
Ronald Dayhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01428695352830083280noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2081748873678351197.post-31510198258426490902023-11-25T09:53:00.000-08:002023-11-25T14:34:13.349-08:00* John 6:63 - Was Jesus Claiming that God's Spirit is a Person of God?<p><span></span></p><a name='more'></a><b>It is the spirit that gives life; the flesh is useless. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. -- John 6:63, Revised Standard Version.</b><br /><br /><br /><p></p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgemPmoRXa2CakyUGOn74HdeawFLFFpWcQWldh4XTVt1EbCPSpZYszOQI4jD_FDzZI34XE6CfZuZgdiCBFTVSkFLPUxJ3f1zpGvwsdy_7LXUVaKNHtAB3Qc87ASl8NLKxqTEskxmeDUaJ3LXxrlEpRBNB9ep4dL09GCzfix9Rx17VT48WZMAAWGCWZZ0Ys8/s900/back%20scripture-fotor-20231125124951.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="587" data-original-width="900" height="209" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgemPmoRXa2CakyUGOn74HdeawFLFFpWcQWldh4XTVt1EbCPSpZYszOQI4jD_FDzZI34XE6CfZuZgdiCBFTVSkFLPUxJ3f1zpGvwsdy_7LXUVaKNHtAB3Qc87ASl8NLKxqTEskxmeDUaJ3LXxrlEpRBNB9ep4dL09GCzfix9Rx17VT48WZMAAWGCWZZ0Ys8/s320/back%20scripture-fotor-20231125124951.jpg" width="320" /></a></div><br /><p>Some point to this verse as an alleged proof of the triune God hypothesis. The reality is that there is nothing in John 6:63 that presents God as being more than one person, or that presents God's Holy Spirit as being separate and distinct person of God. The word "God" does not appear in the verse, but it does appear in the context. "God" is presented as only one person in John 6:27,29,33,45,56.</p><p>Jesus had explained that he is the bread of life who came from God. Jesus speaks, not his own words, but the words of Jehovah, the only true God who sent him. -- Deuteronomy 18:15-22; Matthew 22:32; 23:39; Mark 11:9,10; 12:26; Luke 13:35; 20:37; John 3:2,17,32-35; 4:34; 5:19,30,36,43; 6:57; 7:16,28; 8:26,28,38; 10:25; 12:49,50; 14:10; 15:15; 17:1,3,8,26; 20:17; Acts 2:22,34-36; 3:13-26; 5:30; Romans 15:6; 2 Corinthians 1:3; 8:6; 11:31; Colossians 1:3,15; 2:9-12; Hebrews 1:1-3; 3:2; Revelation 1:1.</p><p>The one person who is God performs His work through, by means of, Jesus whom He sent. -- Isaiah 61:1,2; John 4:34; 5:36; 6:38; 9:4; 17:4; Acts 2:22; 1 Corinthians 8:6; Philippians 2:9,10; Ephesians 1:3,17-26; Colossians 2:10.</p><p>Jesus stated that he does his work by means of his God's Holy Spirit, and the scriptures state that he was led by God's spirit. -- Matthew 4:1; 12:28; Luke 4:1; 11:20.</p><p>Jesus accurately spoke the words of his God, for his God had given to Jesus His Spirit without measure. -- John 3:34.<br /><br />Nevertheless, it is absolutely useless for us to pray Lord, Lord, give us the Spirit, if we neglect the Word of truth which that Spirit has supplied through our Lord Jesus and his apostles. If we merely pray for the Spirit and do not use the proper means to obtain the Spirit of truth, we will continue to be at most only "babes in Christ," seeking outward signs, in proof of relationship to God, instead of the inward witness, through the Word of truth, which he has provided.</p><p>Nothing in any of this necessitates that one has to imagine and assume that God is more than one person, or that his Holy Spirit is a person of God, etc. There is absolutely nothing in John 6 that presents God as being more than one person, nor is there anything there that presents either Jesus or God's Holy Spirit as being persons of God.</p>Ronald Dayhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01428695352830083280noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2081748873678351197.post-79189605753948837942023-11-21T21:10:00.000-08:002023-11-23T16:58:36.736-08:00* John 3:16,17 - God Gave His Son<p><span></span></p><a name='more'></a><p></p><p>John 3:16-17 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. [17] For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. -- <b><i>King James Version</i></b>.</p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiPcFqNEiXlxTdt3Asb9lIPz4J5BlivGvt11mmFKS6yRHFKiGfBI0Ip-AxRtxsPdQJB-jpH_zl8atRRVprEfKfsO0EGRU_bonY2IPU5nH256AZb2X0XSz7_XnBieAvCGthQyA1LizVmrsRcef5w6cD1x_qhXI-krTuK80nhiMLsWSRrBfm8VF5HL46r31dC/s776/tuxpi.com.1700629721.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="776" data-original-width="776" height="320" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiPcFqNEiXlxTdt3Asb9lIPz4J5BlivGvt11mmFKS6yRHFKiGfBI0Ip-AxRtxsPdQJB-jpH_zl8atRRVprEfKfsO0EGRU_bonY2IPU5nH256AZb2X0XSz7_XnBieAvCGthQyA1LizVmrsRcef5w6cD1x_qhXI-krTuK80nhiMLsWSRrBfm8VF5HL46r31dC/s320/tuxpi.com.1700629721.jpg" width="320" /></a></div><br /><p>Many present John 3:16 as a scripture in which John is supposed to be saying that Jesus is God. A few evidently look at the word "God" in this verse and seem to think that it is saying that Jesus is God. So far we have not have found any explanation as to how John 3:16 is actually supposed be saying that Jesus is God. This verse, however, has appeared in several lists as a verse that is to supposed to be saying that Jesus is God or that God is three persons, etc.</p><p>Actually, "God" in this verse refers to only one person, and Jesus is distinguished from being "God" since he is identified as being God's "only begottne Son". "God" in this verse is not identified as being Jesus, but "God" is the one who sent Jesus. (John 3:17) Jesus spoke the One who had sent him as being "the Only true God" and he identified that One was being his Father. (John 17:1,3) In prophetic language, Jesus is depicted as saying that it was Jehovah, "our God", who had anointed and sent him. -- Isaiah 61:1,2.</p><p>The words of John 3:16 tell of God's love for the world of mankind now condemned in Adam, and who are suffering as result of that condemnation. (Ecclesiastes 1:13,14; Romans 5:12-19; Romans 8:19-21) John 3:16 does not say that God sent Himself to save the world, nor does it say that God is more than one person, and that one person who is God sent and other person who is also God. Such thoughts have to imagined and assumed beyond what is stated, and then added to and read into what is stated. </p><p>We may not be able to fully understand the nature of Jesus' God (Micah 5:4; Ephesians 1:3), but this verse gives some idea of how costly God's gift of his Son was to Him. If the death of the saints are precious in His sight (Psalm 116:15), how much more precious in His sight is the death of His "only-begotten" Son! In sending His Son to die for our sins, God prepared a body of flesh for Jesus (Hebrews 10:5), thus Jesus was not a member of the world that is now condemned in Adam. (Romans 5:12-19) Jesus, however, gave up his glory that he had when he had been with his God before he became flesh (John 17:5), and became with the glory that is a little lower than the angels so that he could offer himself as ransom for all. -- 1 Corinthians 8:6; 1 Timothy 2:5,6; Hebrews 2:9.</p><p>Related:<br /><a href="https://ransomforall.blogspot.com/2018/02/john3-17.html" target="_blank">Jesus Saves the World</a></p>Ronald Dayhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01428695352830083280noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2081748873678351197.post-70900921005297153152023-11-20T14:24:00.000-08:002023-12-06T08:50:58.401-08:00* John 6:28,29 -- Believe in Him Whom God Has Sent<div><span><a name='more'></a></span><b>John 6:28-29 - They said therefore to him, "What must we do, that we may work the works of God?" Jesus answered them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent." -- <i>World English</i>.</b></div><div><br /></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg8dTQ6Na8Gq1VKa7LgdZquSo1Ymcsw0CeDQYZMCY6cawz2WN1XDLx-BmPk9hDCsGx0Yet3rUh49sKuHx_rc7pQZsWW_HpjKYGDXl94s70cgST0XLZpKC8ZTU3fXnce6xot9ouM-CNIYqxmr3QFXIO_sJy9QoKU5yWMOrjsPdX1ofqTPtQQXXi8XQyBpxNl/s700/John-6-29-WEB-Jesus-answered-them--This-is-the-work-of-God--I43006029-L02.jpg" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="700" data-original-width="700" height="320" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg8dTQ6Na8Gq1VKa7LgdZquSo1Ymcsw0CeDQYZMCY6cawz2WN1XDLx-BmPk9hDCsGx0Yet3rUh49sKuHx_rc7pQZsWW_HpjKYGDXl94s70cgST0XLZpKC8ZTU3fXnce6xot9ouM-CNIYqxmr3QFXIO_sJy9QoKU5yWMOrjsPdX1ofqTPtQQXXi8XQyBpxNl/s320/John-6-29-WEB-Jesus-answered-them--This-is-the-work-of-God--I43006029-L02.jpg" width="320" /></a></div><div><br /></div><div>Sometimes some present the above verses as proof of the trinity, although as yet we have not found any explanation as to what exactly in the verses is thought to present the trinity.</div><div><br /></div><div>"God" in these verses refers to only one person. Jesus referred to that one person as being the one who had sent him. The one person who is "God" in these verses is that same one person who is "the Lord Jehovah" of Isaiah 61:1,2. This is the same one person whom Jesus spoke of as his Father and the "only true God [Supreme Mighty One}" in John 17:1,3.</div><div><br /></div><div>Some of the Jews who had been among the "great multitude" that Jesus fed from five barley loaves and two fish had sought Jesus out. (John 6:1-25) Jesus told them, "Most assuredly I tell you, you seek me, not because you saw signs, but because you ate of the loaves, and were filled. Don't work for the food which perishes, but for the food which remains to eternal life, which the Son of [the] Man will give to you. For the Father, even God, has sealed him." -- John 6:26,27, World English; we have added the definite article before man to reflect the Greek text which has a definite article before "Man". </div><div><br /></div><div>Jesus, however, had told them to work for the food which gives eternal life. They probably wondered what kind of work it was they should that would give them eternal life. They possibly thought Jesus meant to please God by their works as associated to the Law Covenant. As Jews, they more than likely were thinking that God had a made a covenant of works with their nation, which contained promises of eternal life to any who would obey those laws perfectly. Perhaps, however, they thought that since there are so many commandments in the Law, that only by doing the works of this or that commandment they would accomplish what God required of them. Paul later pointed out that, for those under the Law, if one is disobedient to even one of the commandments, it is the counted as the same as having disobeyed all of them. </div><div><br /></div><div>Jesus answered, however, that the work of God is to believe on him whom God sent. Jesus knew that God had sent him for the very purpose of dying on the cross to release mankind from the condemnation in Adam, as well as to release those under the Law from the curse of the law. The apostle Paul later shows that justification is through faith, not by obeying the works of the Law. The work most pleasing and acceptable to God would be their exercise of faith in him as the one whom God had sent in fulfillment of His promise to their fathers.</div><div><br /></div><div>Today, many think along this same line. They consider that there must be something kind of works that they must perform to atone for their sins. Such rarely come to realize that atonement is through faith in the atoning sacrifice of Jesus, whom God had sent. </div><div><br /></div><div>Regardless, we definitely find nothing in any of this that means that we need to imagine, assume, add to, and read into the scriptures that Jesus is God Almighty, or that Jehovah is more than one person, or that that Jesus is a person of his God, Jehovah, etc.</div><div><br /></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiFc9F0mpu4sIhP9CGOZArEzH_5qauJuyoiolz9isxRVMPpZTOfCDijnfSTy0X8t67xiLYSzZbg4tS6hwUo3wTQpKorqYghb4V3IJNwDzKTcCQWZgiiJzamRHelivy1nUyG_0_bCBWGp_km4uDB5Y6gCGqDaQiuz1sJI-aIItkPg0QAO2bgJkUmwrMOxaGA/s700/a01small.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="82" data-original-width="700" height="37" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiFc9F0mpu4sIhP9CGOZArEzH_5qauJuyoiolz9isxRVMPpZTOfCDijnfSTy0X8t67xiLYSzZbg4tS6hwUo3wTQpKorqYghb4V3IJNwDzKTcCQWZgiiJzamRHelivy1nUyG_0_bCBWGp_km4uDB5Y6gCGqDaQiuz1sJI-aIItkPg0QAO2bgJkUmwrMOxaGA/s320/a01small.jpg" width="320" /></a></div><br /><div><br /></div><div><br /></div>Ronald Dayhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01428695352830083280noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2081748873678351197.post-59247242781725731962023-10-29T14:29:00.000-07:002023-10-29T14:29:16.312-07:00Unpacking John 5:18 (response -- editing)<span><a name='more'></a></span><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg5kqDs4qfDR6OtGx-lRMYtue4XQ6OhUJ-mGMRRFtRt1Ozrk-p0JALERoANZtYGxsv6u6XOh4bYhQnxvcF2U40bfl4OkRsWA0fwK0CkSSjJBwq2d56VtUrudC3p6pOtUFqcQ0uH_LmHeWbHxiRiiuwjaJ2UdRo6WbGOZG_xHfvRY8Am7_6D9dM8VGiik6xX/s700/John-5-18-WEB-For-this-cause-therefore-the-Jews-sought-all-the-I43005018-L03.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="510" data-original-width="700" height="233" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg5kqDs4qfDR6OtGx-lRMYtue4XQ6OhUJ-mGMRRFtRt1Ozrk-p0JALERoANZtYGxsv6u6XOh4bYhQnxvcF2U40bfl4OkRsWA0fwK0CkSSjJBwq2d56VtUrudC3p6pOtUFqcQ0uH_LmHeWbHxiRiiuwjaJ2UdRo6WbGOZG_xHfvRY8Am7_6D9dM8VGiik6xX/s320/John-5-18-WEB-For-this-cause-therefore-the-Jews-sought-all-the-I43005018-L03.jpg" width="320" /></a></div><br /><div>One has posted a series of assertions made on Facebook related to John 5:18. The thread is no longer available, but we are endeavoring to preserve at least some relevant points in this posting. We suggest that one study what we have presented in our study: <a href="https://jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/2017/03/john5-18.html" target="_blank">The Jewish Leaders' "Cause" to Kill Jesus</a>.</div><div><br /></div>
<div>One claimed John did not say that it was the Jews who were claiming that Jesus was equal with God, but rather that they only took issue with Jesus calling God his father. This would seem to seek to separate "called God his Father" from "making himself equal to God." It appears to be saying that the Jews objected to Jesus' referring to God as his father, but did not equate this with being equal to God, but that rather it is John himself (not the Jews), who supplies the information that it is making himself equal with God, and that "the idea that it was just their [the Jews'] opinion is merely an assumption not found in the text."</div><div><br /></div>
<div><b>John 10:33</b></div><div><br />Did John say that the reason that the Jews gave for killing Jesus is accurate and that Jesus' reason as given in John 10:32 is incorrect? Actually, the ending phrase gives the reason -- from the perspective of their argument -- as to why the Jews were objecting to Jesus' referring to his God as his Father. In view of the Jews' claim recorded in John 10:33, wherein they stated that Jesus was a man making himself out to be God (or a god), the default reasoning is that John was simply defining the Jewish "cause" to kill Jesus in John 5:18. Indeed, it really doesn't make sense to say that they were only objecting to Jesus referring to God as his Father, without there being some reason for such objection based on Jewish law, and such a reason would have to be such that it would offer a "cause" for killing Jesus.</div><div><br /></div>
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Of course, the Jewish leaders could have been speaking of "god" in a more general way as the angels are referred to as "gods" (Psalm 8:5; Hebrews 2:7), or similar to the way the sons of the Most High are "gods". (Psalm 82:6) Jesus, by claiming to have come down from heaven from God was indeed claiming to have been such a god -- a mighty spirit being -- before he became flesh with a glory a little lower than the angels. (John 1:14; Hebrews 2:9) John wrote of this in John 1:1, where John spoke Jesus as "the Word" before being made flesh. John used the Greek for "God/god" of Jesus, but obviously not with the meaning of being the "one God" from whom are all. (1 Corinthians 8:6) If this is what is meant in John 5:18, then the final statement is partly true, for Jesus was such a divine being before he became flesh, but it was not true at the time the Jews were making their accusation because Jesus did not have that divine glory while he was in the days of his flesh. -- John 17:5; Hebrews 5:7.</div><div>See our <a href="https://jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/p/john.html#john1-1" target="_blank">Links to Studies Related to John 1:1</a></div>
<div>See also our study: <br />
<a href="https://jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/2016/09/psalm-827.html" target="_blank">Who Are the Gods?</a></div><div><br /></div>
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Nevertheless, since Jesus is not Jehovah, the "one God" from whom are all (1 Corinthians 8:6), Jesus' calling his God his Father would not make him equal to exclusive glory of as a divine being, nor equal to the Supreme Being, as possessing the glory of being "one God" from whom are all. This is indeed but an assumption being made by the Jewish leaders, for Jehovah is called "our Father" in 1 Chronicles 29:10; Isaiah 63:16; 64:8, without any thought that this makes the people of Israel equal to Jehovah.</div><div><br /></div><div>Jehovah Himself confirms his being a Father to Israel as recorded in Jeremiah 3:19; 31:9.</div>
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Likewise, Jesus instructed his followers to refer to God as "our Father" (Matthew 6:9) and many times referred to his God as being the Father of his disciples (Matthew 5:16,45; 6:1,4,6,8,15,18; 7:11; 10:20,29; 18:4; John 20:17, etc). Paul spoke of God as "our Father" (Romans 1:7; 1 Corinthians 1:3; 2 Corinthians 1:2; Galatians 1:3; Ephesians 1:2; Philippians 1:2; Colossians 1:2; 1 Thessalonians 1:1; 2 Thessalonians 2:16; Philemon 1:3) without any thought that such makes one equal to God.</div><div><br /></div>
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Jesus, however, was just not a son of God, he was "the" Son of God, the only one who was begotten directly from God, being the firstborn (first to be brought forth) of God. (Colossians 1:15) Whether the Jews understood this or not, the Bible does not say, but Jesus' parable indicates the Jews did know he was the heir sent from God but did not want to accept him as such. -- Matthew 21:38.</div><div><br /></div>
<div>
For more regarding Jesus as the firstborn creature, see:<br />
<a href="https://jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/p/firstborn.html" target="_blank">Studies Related to Jesus as Firstborn</a></div><div><br /></div>
<div>
</div>
<div>It appears that the author of OP on Facebook was denying that John, by his statement recorded in John 5:18, was reporting any reason of the Jews for killing Jesus, but that they were simply "balking at what Jesus was saying". If this is the thought that was presented by the author, we have no reason to imagine and assume such. Indeed, we are not sure how one could read John 5:18 and come to such a conclusion, for it is plainly stated: "for this cause therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because ..., but also". John does indeed record two different legal causes that the Jews were claiming for killing Jesus. </div><div><br /></div>
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</div>
<div>The author of the OP on Facebook claimed that John calls Jesus "God" throughout his gospel, evidently by "God" meaning the Supreme Being, and a list of scriptures is given where, evidently, it is alleged that John calls Jesus "God", although when we look at those scriptures, we do not find what is being claimed: John 1:1; 1:18; 5:18; 5:23; 8:58; 9:38; 10:33, 36; 12:41 and 20:28. Other scriptures are given for comparison: Romans 9:5; Titus 2:13; 2 Peter 1:1; Hebrews 1:8; Philippians 2:6; Colossians 1:19; 2:9.</div><div><br /></div>
<div>We do not believe that John ever intended anything he wrote to mean that he was saying that Jesus is the Supreme Being. While I do not believe that in all of these scriptures presented that Jesus is being referred to as a god, a mighty one, in Hebraic usage, the Hebrew/Greek words that are often translated as "God/god" can be used of others than the Supreme Being of false gods in a general sense of might, strength, power, etc.</div><div>**** Below needs to be edited</div><div><br /></div>
<div><b>John 1:1</b></div><div>
In John 1:1, John was definitely not saying that Jesus was the only true God (Supreme Being) whom he had been with (John 17:1,3,5), thus we should recognize a more general usage of the word. In John 1:1, we find that forms of the Greek word often transliterated as THEOS is being used. Forms of THEOS in the New Testament simply correspond to forms of the word often transliterated as "EL" (including "elohim) in the Old Testament, and may thus be used with the same Hebraic usage as in the Old Testament. As John 1:1 reads in most translations, it would actually appear being saying that in the beginning there two Gods, two Supreme Beings, one Supreme Being who is with another Supreme Being. So the trinitarian creates many assumptions which are read into what is stated to as to make it say what it does not say, that is, that there are two different persons of the same one God being spoken of by John. <br /><br />What many do not realize is that there is a scriptural Hebraic tradition that allows the usage of the words for "God/god" in a more general sense of might, power, authority, etc. Most translations of the Bible into English as well as other languages recognize this usage. We can use the most popular English translation -- the King James Version -- to illustrate such usage. This can be demonstrated in such verses where the KJV renders the word for God/god (forms of EL, including ELOHIM, in the Hebrew) so as to denote strength, power, might, rulership, etc., such as in the following verses: Genesis 23:6 (mighty); Genesis 30:8 (great); Genesis 31:29 (power); Deuteronomy 28:32 (might); 1 Samuel 14:15 (great); Nehemiah 5:5 (power); Psalm 8:5 (angels); Psalm 36:6 (great); Psalm 82:1 (mighty); Proverbs 3:27 (power); Psalm 29:1 (mighty); Ezekiel 32:21 (strong); Jonah 3:3 (exceeding). If one were to substitute "false god", or Supreme Being, in many of these verses, we would have some absurd statements. This proves that these words are used in a sense other than the only true God, or as false god.</div>
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Nevertheless, in John 1:1, we do find that the Greek word often transliterated as "THEOS" is applied to Jesus before he became flesh -- John is speaking of what he "was" before he became flesh. Since Jesus shows by his words in John 17:1,3,5 that he had been with the only true God before the world of mankind had been made, rather than imagining that John was saying that Jesus was only true God, the default reasoning regarding John 1:1 should be to apply the general Hebraic usage as shown above. Applying Hebraic usage, and to make it better understood in English, the final phrase of John 1:1 would better be rendered “the Logos was mighty,” in accordance with such similar usage as given by the King James Version in Genesis 23:6; 30:8; 31:29; Deuteronomy 28:32; 1 Samuel 14:15; Job 41:25; Psalm 33:16; 36:6; 50:1; 82:1; 89:6; Proverbs 3:27; Ezekiel 32:21, Jonah 3:3; Micah 2:1, wherein the Hebrews words for “God” are not rendered either “God” or “god”, but rather as “exceeding,” “might,” “mighty,” “great,” “power,” or “strong.” Thus, if we render the word THEOS as the KJV renders "EL" in Psalm 82:1 (mighty), we would have "the word was mighty", and all makes perfect sense without adding all of the <a href="https://jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/2017/05/assumptions.html" target="_blank">imaginative assumptions</a> that would have to accompany viewing the scripture through the tint of the trinity doctrine, or the oneness doctrine. Jesus was indeed a mighty one with the only true MIGHT -- the only source of all might -- before the world of mankind was made. The word THEOS as used in John 1:1, refers to Jesus' mighty spirit being before he became flesh. As we can see from John 17:5, during the days of his flesh (Hebrews 5:7), Jesus did not have the glory of being a heavenly, celestial, mighty spirit being (1 Corinthians 15:39-41), for he was a human being, a little lower than the angels. -- Hebrews 2:9.</div>
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For more related to the Hebraic usage of the words for "God/god", see my study:<br />
<a href="https://jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/2016/09/hebraicusage.html" target="_blank">The Hebraic Usage of the Titles for "God"</a></div>
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For more related to John 1:1, see my studies:<br />
<a href="https://jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/p/john.html#john1-1" target="_blank">John 1:1 Resources</a></div>
<div>*** Below needs to be edited; links may not work.</div><div>
I will not here go through all the scriptures listed in the OP, but I will provide links to where I have discussed the scriptures presented:</div>
<div>
John 1:18 (variant readings in manuscripts)<br />
<a href="http://jesus-rlbible.com/?p=200" target="_blank">Did Jesus Have a Beginning?</a><br />
<a href="http://notrinity.blogspot.com/2013/11/john1-18.html" target="_blank">Only Begotten Theos</a></div>
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John 5:18 (THEOS is not applied to Jesus, but rather to the God of Jesus)<br />
<a href="http://jesus-rlbible.com/?p=1424" target="_blank">The Jewish Leaders' Cause to Kill Jesus</a></div>
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John 5:23 (No form of THEOS is applied to Jesus in this verse)<br />
<a href="http://jesus-rlbible.com/?p=6618" target="_blank">Honor the Son As the Father</a><br />
<a href="http://sonofyah.wordpress.com/2008/11/26/john-523/" target="_blank">The Honor Due Jesus</a></div>
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John 8:58 (No form of THEOS is applied to Jesus in this verse)<br />
<a href="http://jesus-rlbible.com/?page_id=5085" target="_blank">"I am" Resource Page</a></div>
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John 9:38 (No form of THEOS is applied to Jesus in this verse)<br />
<a href="http://jesus-rlbible.com/?p=279" target="_blank">Jesus Received Worship</a><br />
John 10:33 (The Jews do apply THEOS to Jesus in their accusation)<br />
<a href="http://jesus-rlbible.com/?p=293" target="_blank">The Oneness of Jehovah and Jesus</a><br />
<a href="http://jesus-rlbible.com/?p=434" target="_blank">In What Sense are Jesus and the Father One?</a><br />
<a href="http://jesus-rlbible.com/?p=377" target="_blank">The Real Reason the Jews Sought to Kill Jesus</a></div>
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John 10:36 (THEOS is applied only to the God of Jesus, not to Jesus)</div>
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John 12:41 (No form of THEOS appears in this verse)<br />
<a href="http://jesus-rlbible.com/?p=515" target="_blank">Isaiah Saw His Glory</a></div>
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John 20:28 (The Greek structure may have been used to denote two persons)<br />
<a href="http://jesus-rlbible.com/?p=339" target="_blank">My Lord and My God</a><br />
http://jesus-rlbible.com/?p=339</div>
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Thus, seen, we can see that John himself definitely only used the word THEOS in his Gospel once of Jesus, and that is in John 1:1. Due to variant readings, he may or may not have used THEOS of Jesus in John 1:18. It is possible that in John 20:28, John quotes Thomas as applying the word THEOS to Jesus, and John does quote the Jewish leaders as applying the word to Jesus in John 10:33. Nevertheless, in the very, very few instances where the Bible does indeed apply the word THEOS to Jesus, it can be seen in to be in the general sense of might, strength, power, not as being the Supreme Being.</div>
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Other Scriptures Given:</div>
<div>
Romans 9:5 (THEOS in this verse probably refers to the God of Jesus, not to Jesus)<br />
<a href="http://jesus-rlbible.com/?p=365" target="_blank">Who Is Over All</a></div>
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Titus 2:13 (THEOS in this verse probably refers to the God of Jesus, not to Jesus)<br />
<a href="http://jesus-rlbible.com/?p=1192" target="_blank">The Great God</a></div>
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2 Peter 1:1 (Variant readings)<br />
<a href="http://jesus-rlbible.com/?p=935" target="_blank">Our God and Savior</a></div>
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Hebrews 1:8 (THEOS may or may be applied to Jesus in this verse; Hebrews 1:9, however, shows that if it is applied to Jesus is verse 8, it is not in the sense of Supreme Being.)<br />
<a href="http://jesus-rlbible.com/?p=367" target="_blank">Why is Jesus Called ELOHIM and THEOS</a><br />
<a href="http://jesus-rlbible.com/?p=1895" target="_blank">What Does Hebrew 1 Say About "God"?</a></div>
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Philippians 2:6 (THEOS in this verse is directly applied to the God of Jesus, not to Jesus)<br />
<a href="http://jesus-rlbible.com/?p=3496" target="_blank">Did Paul Say That Jesus is God?</a><br />
<a href="http://jesus-rlbible.com/?p=3490" target="_blank">Morphe</a><br />
<a href="http://jesus-rlbible.com/?p=3493" target="_blank">The Unipersonal God Exalted Jesus</a><br />
<a href="http://jesus-rlbible.com/?p=624" target="_blank">Humility of Mind</a></div>
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Colossians 1:19 - The word THEOS does not appear in this verse.<br />
<a href="http://jesus-rlbible.com/?p=208" target="_blank">Is Jesus Designated the Originator of Creation?</a><br />
<a href="http://jesus-rlbible.com/?p=933" target="_blank">God's Creations Through Jesus</a><br />
<a href="http://jesus-rlbible.com/?p=806" target="_blank">Study of EN and DIA in Colossians 1</a></div>
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Colossians 2:9 - A form of THEOS is found here, applied to Jesus regarding the abundance of bodily might given to him. Jesus' deity in this verse does not identify Jesus as being his God, Jehovah, in whose strength Jesus stands. -- Micah 5:4.<br />
<a href="http://jesus-rlbible.com/?p=369" target="_blank">The Fullness of Deity</a></div>
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</div>
<div>
Regarding Section 4, it is claimed that the Jews' accusation, "you, being a man, make yourself God" shows that they understood what Jesus said when he that he was the "Son of God". In reality, in John 10:30-36, we find that Jesus refuted the claims of the Jewish leaders by pointing out that the sons of the Most High -- to whom the Logos came -- are "gods" (mighty ones). (John 10:34,35) He certainly was not saying that the sons of the Most High are Supreme Beings, but he did acknowledge the Hebraic usage discussed earlier, and thus showed that his being the Son of God does not mean that he is the Supreme Being. Jesus, however, had already shown to them the real reason that they wished to kill him, which the Jews denied (they lied).</div>
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<a href="http://jesus-rlbible.com/?p=245" target="_blank">Who Are the Gods?</a><br />
<a href="http://jesus-rlbible.com/?p=377" target="_blank">The Real Reason the Jews Sought to Kill Jesus</a></div>
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</div>
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In Section 5, it is claimed that if God is your father, then you are unique and of the "Godkind", evidently, with the meaning of being supreme in their being. This appears to be same line of logic that says God begets God, which would, in effect, mean that the Supreme Being begets Supreme Being. This would also mean that all who are regenerated and become sons of God would become supreme in their being. There is nothing, however, anywhere in the Bible that says that if the Supreme Being begets a son, that son has to be the Supreme Being. This is man's reasoning, which has to be imagined beyond what is written, and actually places the Supreme Being as though he were under the reproduction laws which God has placed upon his earthly living creation. (Genesis 1:11,12,21,22,28) It is possible that the Jewish leadership was using such reasoning, but that does not mean that such reasoning is true.<br /><a href="https://jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/2016/10/godbegets.html" target="_blank">God Begets God?</a></div>
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</div>
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In section 6, it is claimed that the statement (evidently of Section 5) is consistent with Jesus' other claims, such as his "pre-existence", heavenly origin, sinlessness and moral perfection, and pointing to himself as the way, the truth and the life. Added to this, is the fact that he forgave sins and received worship.</div>
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In reality, nothing in any of this means that Jesus is the Supreme Being; one has to reason such beyond what is written by placing a lot of assumptions upon the scriptures. All the related scriptures are fully in harmony with each other without adding to them that Jesus is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.</div>
<div>
Jesus' Prehuman Existence:<br />
<a href="http://jesus-rlbible.com/?page_id=5015" target="_blank">Jesus' Prehuman Existence</a></div>
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Jesus' Sinlessness:<br />
<a href="http://reslight.net/?p=242" target="_blank">The Price of Redemption - God or Man?</a></div>
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<a href="http://jesus-rlbible.com/?p=6682" target="_blank">How Was It Possible For Jesus to be Sinless as a Man?</a></div>
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Regarding John 14:6: Jesus did not make claim to be the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob; he did claim to be the "way" to the only true God. -- John 17:1,3.</div>
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Jesus is the "Way" in that only through his sacrifice, the "ransom," imputing his merit to sinners, could any of us be made acceptable to the Father or be received back again into fellowship with him. He is the "Truth" in the sense that only through his words, his instructions, his guidance, could there be any hope of coming into harmony with the Spirit of God, the Spirit of truth. His words, however, are not actually "his" words, for they are the words of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob who had sent him. (Exodus 3:13,14; Deuteronomy 18:15-19; Isaiah 61:1; John 3:34; 5:19; 6:29; 7:16,28; 8:26,28,42; 10:36; 12:44-50; 14:10,24; 17:1,3,8; Acts 3:13-26; 1 Corinthians 8:6; Galatians 4:4; Hebrews 1:1,2; 1 John 4:9,10) He is the "Life" in that in Adam all the race was dead, under divine sentence – had forfeited the rights of life – and none could come again into life conditions except through him, through the life which he gave for ours. Jesus was not born into this world under this condemnation, thus in him was life, a human life that could be sacrificed to purchase back what Adam had lost. Thus, Jesus is our Ransom or Way; our Teacher or Instructor in righteousness, in the truth, and our Life-giver – "Neither is there salvation in any other." "No man cometh unto the Father but by me" – no man need hope for any place in any of the mansions of the Father's house by any other way, by any other truth, by any other life. – Acts 4:12; John 14:6.</div>
<div>
Nothing in any of this, however, means that we need to imagine and assume that Jesus is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, or that Jesus is a person of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.</div>
<div>
I will now present the scriptures given; if I have already addressed these scriptures elsewhere, I may simply give link(s) to that discussion.</div>
<div><b>
John 8:23</b><br />
<a href="http://jesus-rlbible.com/?p=1238" target="_blank">Did Jesus Need to be Uncreated to Pay For the Sin of the World?</a><br />
<a href="http://jesus-rlbible.com/?p=669" target="_blank">Jesus' Prehuman Glory</a></div>
<div><b>
John 8:24</b><br />
<a href="http://jesus-rlbible.com/?p=253" target="_blank">John 8:58 and Other “I am” Statements of Jesus</a></div>
<div><b>
John 8:42</b> (also John 16:27,28) - "God" in this verse refers to only one person, not three persons. Jesus does not say that he is "God", but rather that he came from God. Jesus proceeded forth and came from God. But Jesus is not God; he is the image of God. (2 Corinthians 4:4; Colossians 1:15) He stated that he is inferior (John 10:29; 14:28); he worshiped God; he prayed to God (John 11:41, 42; 17:1-26); he submitted to God; he called upon God for help with things he could not do himself; he accepted God’s will as his own; he affirmed that God heard his prayers; and unlike God, who must by definition be perfect in every way, Jesus was made complete as a high priest through sufferings, and learned deeper levels of obedience by the things which he suffered (Hebrews 2:10; 5:8,9). Jesus of Nazareth was just what the scriptures style him: the Only-Begotten, the Son of the Highest, the First-Born of every creature. — John 1:18; Luke 1:32; Revelation 3:14.</div>
<div><b>
John 17:3-5</b><br />
<a href="http://jesus-rlbible.com/?p=669" target="_blank">Jesus' Prehuman Glory</a><br />
<a href="http://jesus-rlbible.com/?p=440" target="_blank">Did Jesus Really Say That the Father is the Only True God?</a></div>
<div><b>
John 8:29</b> - It was the Lord Jehovah of Isaiah 61:1 who sent Jesus.<br />
<a href="http://jesus-rlbible.com/?p=2827" target="_blank">Is Jesus the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob?</a></div>
<div><b>
John 8:45,56</b><br />
<a href="http://jesus-rlbible.com/?p=5801" target="_blank">Only God is Sinless?</a></div>
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John 8:47</b> - The words Jesus spoke were not his own, but were those of his God who had sent him. — Exodus 3:13,14; Deuteronomy 18:15-19; Isaiah 61:1; John 3:34; 5:19; 6:29; 7:16,28; 8:26,28,42; 10:36; 12:44-50; 14:10,24; 17:1,3,8; Acts 3:13-26; 1 Corinthians 8:6; Galatians 4:4; Hebrews 1:1,2; 1 John 4:9,10.</div>
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John 14:6</b> - discussed earlier.</div>
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Luke 7:48,49</b><br />
<a href="http://jesus-rlbible.com/?p=822" target="_blank">Only God Can Forgive Sins?</a></div>
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John 9:38</b><br />
<a href="http://jesus-rlbible.com/?p=190" target="_blank">The Worship Due Jesus</a><br />
<a href="http://jesus-rlbible.com/?p=279" target="_blank">Jesus Received Worship</a></div>
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There is nothing in any of the scriptures given that present Jesus as being the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob; there is definitely nothing in any of the scriptures that present the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as being more than one person.</div>
<div><b>John 5:22</b><br />In Section 7, we are told that Jesus is presented as being "the supreme judge" (John 5:22). Evidently, this is being used in the sense of being the Supreme Judge of the entire universe. Yet, in John 5:22, we find that the only true God (John 17:3) is giving all judgment to His Son. The Supreme Judge of the universe is such inherently, and does not need anyone to give to Him authority to judge. Rather than presenting Jesus as the Supreme judge, then, John 5:22 shows that Jesus is NOT the Supreme judge, but that Jesus receives the authority to judge from the only true God. In verse 27 we read "He [the only true God] gave Him [Jesus] authority to execute judgment." Therefore, Jehovah, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, comes to judge through — by means of — His son. — Psalm 96:13; 98:9; Isaiah 40:10; 62:11; Luke 1:32,35; John 5:22,23; Acts 10:42; 17:31; Romans 2:16; 1 Corinthians 4:5; Revelation 22:12.</div>
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It is claimed that Jesus is to be "honored as supremely as the Father" (John 5:23) The implication of the statement appears to be that we should honor the Son as being as Supreme as the Father. In that Jesus does not do anything of his own initiative and that his judgment is always in harmony with the will of his God (John 8:30), we should indeed honor him just as we would honor his God and Father. (Micah 5:4; Ephesians 1:3) There is nothing at all in John 5:23 that says that we should honor Jesus as being the Supreme Being.<br />
<a href="http://jesus-rlbible.com/?p=6618" target="_blank">Honor the Son As the Father</a></div>
Ronald Dayhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01428695352830083280noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2081748873678351197.post-74461457313239958812023-10-19T09:51:00.005-07:002023-10-25T12:35:11.140-07:00Isaiah 46:9 - No God Like Jehovah<p><span></span></p><a name='more'></a>Isaiah 46:9 - Remember the former things of old: for I am God (EL, Strong's #430), and there is none else; [I am] God, and there is none like me; -- <b><i>American Standard Version</i></b>.<p></p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjxY30OO-E73RXrU1X8w5rKp3WcLQQHUE0MLHWS_aOZ2SMnScuYVrQNSvfVMikJlJ_9F9RtB9fBJ5aoo3vL2pTLLBcUHbM8qodQmA1_vQb5A88A38ZKS8f7mMl8VcpmICqA411rfroPJZwZmxUySxsljrY9W5M-v_JF4ElVuNw1kTI7ARQ1r55QTHrzW7uL/s758/tuxpi.com.1697732348.jpg" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="758" data-original-width="758" height="320" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjxY30OO-E73RXrU1X8w5rKp3WcLQQHUE0MLHWS_aOZ2SMnScuYVrQNSvfVMikJlJ_9F9RtB9fBJ5aoo3vL2pTLLBcUHbM8qodQmA1_vQb5A88A38ZKS8f7mMl8VcpmICqA411rfroPJZwZmxUySxsljrY9W5M-v_JF4ElVuNw1kTI7ARQ1r55QTHrzW7uL/s320/tuxpi.com.1697732348.jpg" width="320" /></a></div><br /><div class="separator" style="clear: both;"><span style="text-align: left;">This scripture and some similar scriptures are often cited as allegedly proving that "god" cannot be applied to Jesus. The claim appears to be saying that forms of the Hebrew word often transliterated as EL (Strong's #410, 430, etc.) and forms of the Greek word often transliterated as THEOS (or, QEOS) can only applied to God Almighty or else they are applied to false gods. Forms of THEOS in the New Testament correspond to forms of EL in the Old Testament.</span></div><p>There is indeed none who have the same likeness of being the "one God" from whom are all. (1 Corinthians 8:6) Not even Jesus is like God in this sense, because God has made Jesus to be the "one Lord" THROUGH whom are all. As designating the "one God" from whom are all, forms of EL in the Bible obviously take on the meaning of Supreme Mighty One. There is only one who is the Supreme Mighty One, and that one is the God and Father of Jesus. </p><p>Isaiah 46:9 contain two forms of EL that are rendered as "God" in most (but not all) translations. Nevertheless, forms of EL (Strong's #410, 430, etc) are used in the Bible in other than designating the Supreme Mighty One or false gods. We should remember the basic meaning of the Hebrew word EL is might, power, strength. As such it is used in other ways without speaking of either the Almighty God or false gods. For instance, when Laban spoke of the EL (Strong's 410) in his hand (Genesis 31:29), was he speaking of the Supreme Being in his hand, or simply the might, strength in this hand? He certainly was not speaking of the false god of his hand. Was Laban being henotheistic in referring to the EL of his hand? Most translators do not rend EL in Genesis 31:29 as either "God" or "god", but usually with words such as "power", "might", or "strength". This falls back to the basic means of forms of EL. There is definitely nothing in Isaiah 43:10 or anywhere else in the entire Bible that presents Jehovah, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, as being more than one person or as being three persons. Should we believe that when Laban spoke of the EL (god, might, strength -- Strong's #410) in his hand (Genesis 31:29) that he was speaking of having the Almighty God Jehovah in his hand, or that he was speaking of having a false god in his hand? Indeed, I do not know of any translation that renders EL in Genesis 31:29 as either "god" or "God", since, in English, we would not normally use the English word "god" when speaking of the might or power in one's hand. </p><p>The King James Version (KJV) renders forms of EL as "power" in Genesis 31:29; Nehemiah 5:5 and Proverbs 3:27. In these verses the Hebrew word EL is definitely not referring to the Supreme Mighty One nor to false gods. The KJV renders forms of EL as "might", "mighty" or "mighty one" in the following verses: Deuteronomy 28:32; Psalms 29:1; 82:1; 89:6; Ezekiel 31:11. A form of EL is rendered in the KJV as "strong" in Ezekiel 32:21. In view of this, one should understand that forms of EL and THEOS may be used of Jesus to designate him as "mighty" or "a mighty one" without designating Jesus as being the Almighty God, Jehovah.</p><p>Strong's gives several numbers to variations of the Hebrew world EL (Strong's 410). One of the destinations is that of what is often transliterated as ELOHIM; Strong classifies many forms of EL under the general classification as ELOHIM, giving it a separated number, that is, Hebrew #430. ELOHIM is actually a plural form of another of Strong's classifications of forms of the EL, which he gives the number of 433. ELOHIM (Strong's 430) is plural in form, but is most often used as plural intensive, that is, it is used as though it were singular but with a superior or superlative application. Thus, ELOHIM is based on ELOAH (Strong's #433), which is turn is a form of EL (Strong's #410).<br /><br />However, are forms of ELOHIM always used only of Jehovah and false gods? An examination of its usage in the Old Testament reveals that it's usage is not exclusive to Jehovah and false gods. Briefly, the Moses was made ELOHIM (a mightier one, or a superior mighty one) to Pharoah. (Exodus 7:1) Some translation add the word "as" before "God" in Exodus 7:1; other add "like" so as to render it as "like God". Actually, there is nothing in the Hebrew to designate that it should be rendered "as God" or "like God". ELOHIM in Exodus 7:1 is indefinite; it does not have a definite article, thus it could be rendered as "a god", as it is in the King James Version. We believe the best rendering of ELOHIM in Exodus 7:1 would be "a mighty one", or, to signify the superior usage of the plural intensive application, it could be rendered as "a mightier one", "stronger", etc. Regardless of how it is rendered in English, the same general application would apply to scriptures wherein the forms EL or THEOS are applied to Messiah, who is not the "one God" from whom are all, but rather the "one Lord" through whom are all. (1 Corinthians 8:6) Jesus is a mighty one, but much greater than the might and power that Jehovah gave to Moses. Thus, for instance, the application theos to the Logos in John 1:1 could be rendered as 'god", "a god", "mighty", or "a mighty one", without any of the English renderings designating Jesus as being God Almighty or a false god.<br /><br />There are other instance in the Bible in which ELOHIM is used with speaking of God Almighty or false gods. I recommend that one pray to God and take the time to study the information we have presented in our studies: </p><p><a href="https://jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/2017/04/isa44-6.html" target="_blank">Aside From Jehovah, There is No God</a></p><p><a href="https://jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/2016/09/hebraicusage.html" target="_blank">The Hebraic Usage of the Titles for "God"</a></p><p><a href="https://jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/2016/10/falsedichotomy.html" target="_blank">True God Versus False God = False Dichotomy</a></p><p><br /></p><p><b>"I am" in Isaiah 46:9</b><br /><br />Some endeavor to emphasize "I am" in this verse, obviously in an attempt to make it appear that Jesus was claiming to be "God' who is spoken of in in this verse. Usually they use John 8:58 and some other places in the New Testament where Jesus is quoted as using "Ego Eimi", which is often translated as "I am". Actually, the Hebrew text does not have the verb for "am" in this verse. Additionally, there is no verb form "there is" in the Hebrew text. Both of these verb forms have to be added by translators. Literally rendered it would read ""God other and no God I for of old the former things remember like me and none." In other words, this verse in the Hebrew contains no verbs at all. Unlike English, Hebrew sentences do not require verbs. In this verse (as in is often true in many verses throughout the Bible), which verbs are meant and where they are to be placed has to be determined by the English translators. But many wish to connect this with the usage of the verb often transliterated as EHJEH, or EHYEH as found in the Hebrew text at Exodus 3:14. The reality is that Isaiah 46:9 does not have the verb as found in Exodus 3:14.</p><p>See our links to Studies Related to <a href="https://jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/p/ehjeh-and-i-am.html" target="_blank">Ehjeh and "I am"</a></p><p><b>References:</b><br />Some of these links give opinions of scholars and often the opinions are stated as fact; we do not necessarily agree with all opinions given.</p><p><a href="https://biblehub.com/interlinear/isaiah/46-9.htm" target="_blank">Biblehub Interlinear for Isaiah 46:9</a></p><p>Various translations of Isaiah 46:9<br /><a href="https://www.biblestudytools.com/isaiah/46-9-compare.html" target="_blank">Biblestudytools</a><br /><a href="https://biblehub.com/parallel/isaiah/46-9.htm" target="_blank">Bible dot com</a><br /><a href="https://biblehub.com/parallel/isaiah/46-9.htm" target="_blank">Bible Hub</a></p><p><a href="https://biblehub.com/text/isaiah/46-9.htm" target="_blank">Biblehub Hebrew analysis of Isaiah 46:9</a></p><p><a href="https://biblehub.com/hebrew/410.htm" target="_blank">Strong's #410 definitions and opinions given by different scholars</a><br /><a href="https://biblehub.com/hebrew/430.htm" target="_blank">Strong's #430 definitions and opinions given by different scholars</a></p><p><br /></p>Ronald Dayhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01428695352830083280noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2081748873678351197.post-25230643868892867642023-09-26T16:23:00.007-07:002023-10-24T15:59:23.414-07:00John 1:18 - The Bosom of God (Working On)<div><span><a name='more'></a></span>(This study is not yet completed)<br /><br /></div>A few trinitarians claim that John 1:18 tells us that Jesus is "from the bosom of God," or "out of the bosom of God." Before we begin, we wish to point out that John 1:18 does not say that Jesus is from or out of the bosom of God, but rather<br /><br />No one has seen God at any time. The one and only Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he has declared him. -- World English.<br /><br />The Greek word rendered "in" above is Strong's Greek #1519, which does not carry the meaning of "from". While it can carry several shades of meaning, in John 1:18, it appears to be used in the sense of being in union with.<br /><a href="https://biblehub.com/greek/1519.htm" target="_blank">https://biblehub.com/greek/1519.htm</a><br /><a href="https://www.studylight.org/lexicons/greek/1519.html">https://www.studylight.org/lexicons/greek/1519.html</a><br /><br />One claims:<br /><br />
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As you all well know, the Prologue to the Gospel of John announces that, the Logos, the Word which was in beginning with the Father has come forth, proceeding from the bosom of God the Father and as a matter of fact the Word is God. You already know that God the Word is also God the Son. Furthermore you already know that God the Word, the Son became flesh, which means he became a real human being, body and all and you know that Jesus is the Son of God Incarnate. The word used for “flesh” here in the Prologue is the word “sarx” and this means that God literally assumed true flesh and thus God truly affirms his love and commitment to flesh, to “sarx.” The whole created order is very good, the material world is very good, human flesh, human nature is very good and the Incarnation is an act of God that demonstrates just how good flesh is in God’s eyes.</blockquote>
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<a href="http://www.allsaintscville.org/sermon-for-trinity-sunday-3/" target="_blank">http://www.allsaintscville.org/sermon-for-trinity-sunday-3/</a> </div>
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<div style="text-align: left;">The above is not very clear as related to what is meant by stating that Jesus "has come forth, proceeding from the bosom of God the Father." The "bosom" is not actually explained, but it does appear to be making the claim that when Jesus became flesh, he proceeded from the bosom of God. </div>
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Of course, if one views John 1:1 as saying that the Word was God (Supreme Being), then according to what is actually written, without creating a lot of extra-Biblical assumptions to add to and read into what is stated, it would mean that there are two Supreme Beings, one Supreme Being who is with another Supreme Being. One does have to create several conjectures beyond what is stated and then add those conjectures to, and read those conjectures into John 1:1-3 in order to imagine and assume that it is saying that one person of the "one God" was with another person of the "one God." While the Hebrew and Greek words for "God/god" can be used in other ways than designated the Supreme Being or false gods, there is, however, in fact, only "one God" from whom are all, and that "one God" is not Jesus, but rather the God and Father of Jesus. -- 1 Corinthians 8:6; see also our study <a href="https://jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/2016/09/hebraicusage.html" target="_blank">The Hebraic Usage of the Titles for "God"</a>; also see our <a href="https://jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/p/john.html#john1-1" target="_blank">Studies Related to John 1:1</a><br /><br />There is definitely nothing in John 1 about the Most High God becoming incarnate. This also has to be imagined and assumed beyond what is written, added to what is written, and read into what is written. The Bible nowhere relates that God Almighty assumed human flesh, and then offered Himself as man to Himself to pay the price of sin for mankind. Indeed, trinitarianism usually denies that Jesus offered his body of flesh with its blood to God at all, since they claimed that the man Jesus still exists, and still has that flesh. <br /><br />John 1:18, if read in harmony with the rest of the scriptures and with Biblical Hebraic usage in mind, should be rather easy to understand. Nevertheless, the trinitarian likes to imagine this, and imagine that, and claim that what is being imagined is revealed by the Holy Spirit, so as to make Jesus be saying something that he did not say, nor that any scripture anywhere says, that is, that "God" who cannot be seen refers to their alleged first person of "God", but Jesus, being the alleged third person of God is God who can be seen. Then, since they claim that what they have imagined is revealed by God's Holy Spirit, many of them proclaim their imaginations to be "orthodox" and thus they further claim that any who disagree with their imaginations is not Christian. <br /><br />Of course, if Jesus was "God in the flesh" as they claim, then rather than condemn in sin the flesh (Romans 8:3), Jesus actually justified sin the flesh, for Jesus would have proved that only God can obey God, and human flesh alone cannot obey God. Indeed, this is what many trinitarians claim, that only God is sinless, and no human being can be without sin.<br /><br />Another point is that if God Almighty was made flesh, are became flesh, that would actually mean that He was no longer God Almighty, but a man of flesh, having a bodily glory that is a little lower than the angels. Trinitarians have to make up a story about Jesus having two "natures" while he was in the days of his flesh (Hebrews 5:7), he was actually the Supreme Being and a human being at the same time. Not only that, they claim that he is still to this day both Supreme Being and a human being, although they usually do not put express in terms of Supreme Being and human being, but rather as "divine nature" and "human nature".<br /><br />Scripturally, however, Adam was without sin, until he sinned. Thus, originally, man of flesh, without sin, was very good in God's eyes. (Genesis 1:31) As long as Adam did not disobey, he did not fall short of the glory of God in his flesh. (Romans 3:23) In other words, the first man did not become a flesh being due to his sin, but he was already a flesh being before he sinned. Thus it was that Solomon was right when he said, "God made man upright." -- Ecclesiastes 7:29 </div>
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Nevertheless, Adam did sin through disobedience and thus was no longer "very good," for he then fell short of the glory of God. Due to Adam's disobedience, however, God made man "crooked" (unjust), and under a bondage of corruption, given over all kinds of sinful desires. -- Ecclesiastes 7:13; Romans 1:24-32; 8:19-21.</div>
<br /><div style="text-align: left;">Due to his great wisdom and love, God not only condemned Adam but also all of Adam's descendants to death. This condemnation would have been permanent, but God's wisdom and love made it temporary due to the atoning sacrifice of the man, Christ Jesus. All were condemned in one disobedient man so only one obedient man would be needed to offset the condemnation. -- Romans 5:12-19; 1 Corinthians 15:21,22; 1 Timothy 2:5,6; 1 John 2:2; Hebrews 2:9.</div>
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<div style="text-align: left;">For studies related to the atonement through Jesus:</div><div style="text-align: left;"><a href="https://ransomforall.blogspot.com/p/on-this-site.html" target="_blank">https://ransomforall.blogspot.com/p/on-this-site.html</a><br /><br />Another makes the following claim:<br /></div>
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
The Son coming from the bosom of the Father inherits the very same 100% divine nature of God his Father, just as Eve, made from Adam’s rib, inherited his exact same humanity. She was cloned from Adam, one in nature, only “a little short of being identical.” His use of “co-substantial” was novel. It effectively describes the identical nature that will be possessed (having “the same attributes”) of the true Son who comes forth from his true Father.</blockquote>
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<a href="https://www.trsc.today/php/article-Bohr.php">https://www.trsc.today/php/article-Bohr.php</a> </div>
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Here it is directly claimed that Jesus' coming from the bosom of the Father is believed to be from "100% divine nature." While the term "divine nature" can mean many different things, as used here it is evidently meant the nature of being the Supreme Being, the "one God" from whom are all. (1 Corinthians 8:6) However, as yet, we have not found what Hebrew or Greek Biblical words would correspond with this phrase with the meaning often ascribed to it. Eve was certainly not the same human being as Adam, and if such is applied to the trinity, it would mean that Jesus and his Father are two Supreme Being who share the quality of being supreme in their being. Such an idea is nowhere found in the Bible, nor it the idea that if God Almighty, that son has to also be God Almighty. Such would actually make two God Almighies from whom are all. Scripturally, however, there is no reason to create all the trinitarian surmisings and add those to and read those into the Bible. The Bible can be seen to fully at harmony with itself without adding all the trinitarian philosophies to the Bible.<br /><br /> ****** more to be added later, God willing.<br /><br /></div>
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Ronald Dayhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01428695352830083280noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2081748873678351197.post-44276054262889872952023-07-25T11:32:00.004-07:002023-10-24T16:00:38.718-07:00Mark 14:61-64 -- The Alleged Blasphemy of Jesus<p><b><span></span></b></p><a name='more'></a><b>{Mark 14:61} But he remained quiet, and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked him, "Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?"<br /></b><b>{Mark 14:62} Jesus said, "I am. You will see the Son of the Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming with the clouds of the sky."<br /></b><b>{Mark 14:63} The high priest tore his clothes, and said, "What further need have we of witnesses? <br /></b><b>{Mark 14:64} You have heard the blasphemy! What do you think?" They all judged him to be worthy of death.</b><p></p><p>The above scriptures are sometimes cited as proof that Jesus is God Almighty. Since there is nothing in the above verses where Jesus states that he is God Almighty, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the reality is that any such thought has to be imagined and assumed beyond what is stated, added to what is stated and read into what is stated. Trinitarians have to create assumptions beyond what is stated so as to claim the God is more than one person, etc.<br /><br />Mark 14:61</p><p>ho de esiwpa kai ouk apekrinato ouden plain<br />THE (ONE) BUT WAS SILENT AND NOT ANSWERED NOTHING. AGAIN<br />3588 1161 4623 2532 3756 0611 3762 3825</p><p>ho archiereus epeerwta auton kai legei<br />THE CHIEF PRIEST WAS INQUIRING UPON HIM AND IS SAYING<br />3588 0749 1905 0846_7 2532 3004</p><p>autw su ei ho christos ho huios tou eulogeetou<br />TO HIM YOU ARE THE CHRIST THE SON OF THE BLESSED ONE?<br />0846_5 4771 1510_1 3588 5547 3588 5207 3588 2128<br />Westcott & Hort Interlinear.</p><p>In verse 61, the high priest asked Jesus if he was the Christ, meaning Anointed One, the Messiah. He did not ask Jesus if he was the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, but rather if he was the one whom the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob had anointed and sent. The very term "the Christ" (the Messiah, the Anointed One) should show that he was not asking Jesus if he was God Almighty. -- Isaiah 61:1,2; John 17:1,3. See our study: <a href="https://jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/2022/12/isa61-1.html" target="_blank">The Spirit of Jehovah Upon the Anointed One</a><br /><br />The high priest asks Jesus if he is the "Son of the Blessed". It is possible that the high priest had actually used some form of the Holy Name here, and that later copyists changed it to "tou eulogeetou", as shown above. Matthew 26:23 in the extant manuscripts records the high priest as asking Jesus, if he was "the Son of God." Nevertheless, the High Priest was asking Jesus is he was the Son of God, as had been reported to him. Some make much ado about Jesus' being Son of God, as they would add to the scriptures that his being Son of God means that Jesus is God Almighty. There is no scriptural reason, however, to read such a thought into the Bible. See our study: <a href="https://jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/2016/10/godbegets.html" target="_blank">"God begets God?"</a></p><p>Mark 14:62<br />ho de ieesous eipen egw eimi kai opsesthe ton<br />THE BUT JESUS SAID I AM, AND YOU WILL SEE THE<br />3588 1161 2424 1511_7 1473 1510 2532 3708 3588</p><p>huion tou anthrwpou ek dexiwn katheemenon tees<br />SON OF THE MAN OUT OF RIGHT HAND [PARTS] SITTING OF THE<br />5207 3588 0444 1537 1188 2521 3588</p><p>dunamews kai erchomenon meta twn nephelwn tou ouranou<br />POWER AND COMING WITH THE CLOUDS OF THE HEAVEN.<br />1411 2532 2064 3326 3588 3507 3588 3772</p><p>In verse 62, Jesus responds by saying "I am", that is, he was saying that he was the one the high priest had asked about, the Messiah, the Son of God. Some claim that Jesus was, by use of the phrase often transliterated as EGO EIMI, claiming to be EHJEH of Exodus 3:14. Or, they may claim that Jesus was saying that He was existing eternally, outside of time, or something similar. In some way, they would read into the phrase EGO EIMI that Jesus was claiming to be God Almighty. The reality is that there is nothing in the Greek phrase often transliterated as EGO EIMI that designates Jesus as being God Almighty. See our studies related to <a href="https://jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/p/ehjeh-and-i-am.html" target="_blank">EHJEH and "I am"</a>.</p><p>Jesus speaks of himself as the son of the man, evidently, referring to himself as the promised son of the man, David. (2 Samuel 7:12-16; Psalm 132:11; Isaiah 9:7; Jeremiah 23:5; 33:15-17; Ezekiel 34:23,24; 37:25; Amos 9:11) Jesus speaks of himself as sitting at the right hand of the power. Psalm 110:1 foretells that the Messiah would sit at the right hand of Jehovah (Yahweh). It is possible that Jesus actually used some form of the God's Holy Name in reference to Psalm 110:1, and that later copyists changed the Holy Name to a form of DUNAMIS. Regardless, Jesus was indeed claiming that he was to be exalted to the right hand of Jehovah, his God, as foretold in Psalm 110:1. This is verified in Acts 2:33; 5:31; 7:55,56; Romans 8:34; Ephesians 1:20; 3:1; Hebrews 1:3,13; 8:1.</p><p>A little side note: Many commentators claim Jesus was referring to his second coming. This is correct, but we should note that it is not referring to the instant he returns, but rather to some time after he returns. Those Jews in the first century would have to be raised from the dead before they would be able to see Jesus coming in the clouds and sitting at God's right hand. The dead are not raised before Christ's return, but rather sometime after Christ has returned.<br /><br />In verses 63 and 64, we find the reaction of the high priest and the Jews to what Jesus stated. Many like to read into what is stated that their reactions show that they understood Jesus was claiming to be God Almighty. The reality is that there is nothing at all in their reactions that indicate such. Some have even claimed that the only "blasphemy" that would call for death would be a claim of being God. Again, no scripture presents such an idea. <br /><br />In the mind of those Jews who claimed that Jesus was a sinner man with a demon (Matthew 12:24; Mark 3:22,30; John 7:20; 8:48,52; 9:24; 10:20), Jesus' statement that they would see Jesus at God's right hand would certainly have been viewed as blasphemous. <br /><br />What we do not find anywhere in the verses is any thought that Jesus claimed to be Jehovah, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Nor do we find any thought that the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is more than one person, etc.</p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhRrPSB41rfUitr526AX7tXcY76NdGB60tdtEb0DJwIkAfrS8sDkFOPsx2ZZJxfz7ttSbB16HFUssBdd5PT8Y1nNaUWG-S1zLPooR-k7GuysJKVqCXCkx6wqYLgTOZhmhwDfvpelh810qz6pXj1oVoa5p_0Ad4UAPfws3KLlKTCA-L7eZrhRotyDCeq2X-z/s400/tuxpi.com.1690310299small.jpg" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="315" data-original-width="400" height="252" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhRrPSB41rfUitr526AX7tXcY76NdGB60tdtEb0DJwIkAfrS8sDkFOPsx2ZZJxfz7ttSbB16HFUssBdd5PT8Y1nNaUWG-S1zLPooR-k7GuysJKVqCXCkx6wqYLgTOZhmhwDfvpelh810qz6pXj1oVoa5p_0Ad4UAPfws3KLlKTCA-L7eZrhRotyDCeq2X-z/s320/tuxpi.com.1690310299small.jpg" width="320" /></a></div><br /><div><br /></div>Ronald Dayhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01428695352830083280noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2081748873678351197.post-22644334507610305462023-05-30T18:45:00.011-07:002023-10-24T16:01:17.721-07:00* Isaiah 40:28 - The Creator of the Ends of the Earth<p><b><span></span></b></p><a name='more'></a><b>Isaiah 40:28 - Hast thou not known? hast thou not heard? The everlasting God, Jehovah, the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary; there is no searching of his understanding. -- </b><i>American Standard Version</i><b>.</b><p></p><p>Sometimes, Isaiah 40:28 is given by trinitarians along with other scriptures in an effort to claim that there are three persons who are referred to as the Creator. </p><p>Nothing in Isaiah 40:28 presents Jehovah (Yahweh) as being more than one person, or indicates that Jesus is Jehovah. "God" [ELOHIM, Strong's #430] in this verse is obviously the same one person who is "God" [ELOHIM] in Isaiah 61:1,2 and Micah 5:4. Only Jehovah, the God and Father of Jesus, is the source of creation. ("Jehovah" is the same one person spoken of in Psalm 110:1, at whose right hand Jesus sits. Jesus confirmed what is stated in Isaiah 40:28 by referring to his God and Father as the one who from the beginning made man male and female. (Mark 10:6; 13:19) Thus, only Jesus' God, Jehovah (Micah 5:4; 1 Peter 1:3), is appropriately called "creator" in the Bible.</p><p>The expression "ends of the earth" evidently refers to the land areas upon the planet Earth, and God's creation upon that land. If this is so, this is the same "earth/land" that is referred to in Genesis 1:1,10; 2:1,4; Exodus 20:11; 31:17. Acts 4:24; 14:15. </p><p>Jesus, however, is identified in the Bible, not as being the "one God" from whom are the all, but rather "one Lord" through whom God made the skies and the land, and all therein. Indeed, 1 Corinthians 8:6 shows Jesus, not as the the source, but rather the instrument that God uses. -- John 1:3,10; Colossians 1:15-17.</p><p>The Textus Recptus of Ephesians 3:9, agrees with this.</p><p>Ephesians 3:9 - and to make all men see what is the administration of the mystery which for ages has been hidden in God, who created all things through Jesus Christ. -- <b><i>World English</i></b>.<br /><br />There is no reason to believe that "Jehovah" in Isaiah 40:28 is not the same one person who is "Jehovah" in Isaiah 61:1,2 and Micah 5:4. Jehovah is the God and Father of Jesus. -- Ephesians 1:3.</p><p><br /></p><p style="text-align: center;"><><><><><><></p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjsbgSQnCYtTv2aTp_jZafwiQTm3iNp4s-MI8HBuWaLq6EzXwRqVYNN0HxaAPXvOTw-KAmledccWYm2G6XA2R48vMusv9rFDG38Es4DpVexSB5VElT8P6MFQRbqGYua-zUqChFzihJMW4jjpoIhpitNNVhTppbczFEvDPG4Y9H3Vo7ybQAlSuWVU1Rxp1vU/s480/tuxpi.com.1687442736.jpg" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="360" data-original-width="480" height="240" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjsbgSQnCYtTv2aTp_jZafwiQTm3iNp4s-MI8HBuWaLq6EzXwRqVYNN0HxaAPXvOTw-KAmledccWYm2G6XA2R48vMusv9rFDG38Es4DpVexSB5VElT8P6MFQRbqGYua-zUqChFzihJMW4jjpoIhpitNNVhTppbczFEvDPG4Y9H3Vo7ybQAlSuWVU1Rxp1vU/s320/tuxpi.com.1687442736.jpg" width="320" /></a></div><br /><p style="text-align: center;"><br /></p><p><br /></p>Ronald Dayhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01428695352830083280noreply@blogger.com2tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2081748873678351197.post-81995964002874087742023-05-05T15:40:00.004-07:002023-10-24T16:02:40.897-07:00Jehovah and Jesus as "King"<p><span></span></p><a name='more'></a>We have been presented with a list of scriptures, evidently with the idea that these scriptures prove that Jesus is Jehovah, since both are spoken of as "king". Evidently, it is thought that by doing to so, this would also offer proof that the trinity doctrine is true, since one could imagine and assume that Jehovah is more than one person, and that Jesus is a person of Jehovah.<p></p><p>The scriptures presented are:<br /></p><p style="text-align: center;"><><><><><><></p><div><b>God as King</b></div><p>Psalm 10:16 * Psalm 29:10 * Psalm 44:4 * Psalm 47:7 * Psalm 74:12 * Isaiah 43:15 * Jeremiah 10:10 * Zechariah 14:9.</p><p><b>Jesus as King</b></p><p>Matthew 2:1,2 * Luke 19:32-38 * Luke 23:3 * John 18:37 * John 19:21 * Acts 17:7 * 1 Timothy 6:15.</p><p style="text-align: center;"><><><><><><></p><p>Let us examine the scriptures to see if they actually reveal Jesus as being Jehovah, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.</p><p><b>Psalms 10:16 - Jehovah is King for ever and ever: The nations are perished out of his land. --</b> <b><i>American Standard Version (ASV)</i></b>.</p><p>Jehovah is declared to be King forever, and so He is. It is this "Jehovah" who is presented as being only one person in Isaiah 9:7; 61:1,2 and Micah 5:4.</p><p>Isaiah 9:7 - Of the increase of his government and of peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to establish it, and to uphold it with justice and with righteousness from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of Jehovah of hosts will perform this. -- <i><b>ASV</b></i>.</p><p><b>Psalm 29:10 - Jehovah sat as King at the Flood; Yea, Jehovah sitteth as King for ever. -- <i>American Standard Version (ASV)</i>.</b></p><p>Here we read that Jehovah sat as King at (during) the flood, possibly referring to the flood of Noah's day). And we read that Jehovah is to sit as King forever. The wording seems to support the idea that it is speaking of a specific flood and that Jehovah sat as King during that flood. Thus, if by flood is meant the flood of Noah's day, which we believe that it is, Jesus is not depicted in the Bible as having sat as king during the flood. Jehovah certainly showed Himself to be King, or ruler, of his creation when he made the waters above descend and the waters below to flood over. -- Genesis 6:17; 7:11.<br /><br />Jehovah, however, did give to Jesus power and authority so that Jesus was enabled to command the wind and water. (Luke 8:25) The Bible writers, however, always show that Jesus' God is the source of Jesus' power and authority; they never present Jesus as being the source of his power. -- Deuteronomy 18:15-19; Psalm 2:6-8; 45:7; 110:1,2; Isaiah 9:6,7; 11:2; 42:1; 61:1-3; Jeremiah 23:5; Ezekiel 34:23,24; 37:24; Daniel 7:13,14; Micah 5:4; Matthew 12:28; 28:18; Luke 1:32; 4:14,18; 5:17; John 3:34; 5:19,27,30; 10:18,36-38; Acts 2:22,36; 3:13-26; 10:38; Romans 1:1-4; 1 Corinthians 15:27; 2 Corinthians 13:4; Colossians 1:15,16; 2:10; Ephesians 1:3,17-23; Philippians 2:9-11; Hebrews 1:2,4,6,9; 1 Peter 3:22.<br /><br />There is definitely nothing in the fact that Jehovah is depicted as "King' in Psalm 29:11 that means that we need to imagine as assume that Jehovah's making His Son to be "king" means that Jesus is Jehovah, or that Jehovah is three persons, or that Jesus is a person of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, etc.<br /><b><br /></b></p><p><b>Psalm 44:4 - Thou art my King, O God: Command deliverance for Jacob. -- <i>ASV</i></b></p><p>Here the Psalmist acknowledges God as being his King. We cannot be certain who wrote this Psalm, but this acknowledgment of God as being the King of Israel does not conflict with the fact that while God is the King of Israel, God has appointed others to sit on his throne as kings over Israel. The fact that he appointed these others as kings over Israel does not call for us to imagine and assume that all these kings are God Almighty because of their being appointed as kings; likewise, with Jesus: We should not imagine and assume that Jesus is God Almighty since Jesus' God has appointed him to be King of God's people.</p><p><b>Psalms 47:7 - For God is the King of all the earth: Sing ye praises with understanding. </b></p><div>God is indeed the King of all the earth. Jehovah is certainly the King of all of his creation. Does this mean that we need to imagine and assume that every king that sits on Jehovah's throne in Israel must be a person of Jehovah? After Jehovah, the God and Father of Jesus (Micah 5:4; Ephesians 1:3), exalted Jesus with a bodily glory that far above all dominions (excluding the Most High Himself). -- Acts 2:33,36; 5:31; Philippians 2:9; Ephesians 1:3,17-23; 1 Corinthians 15:27; Hebrews 1:4,6; 1 Peter 3:22), Jesus still referred to Jehovah as being "my God". -- Revelation 3:2,12.<br /><br /><p><b>Psalms 74:12 - Yet God is my King of old, Working salvation in the midst of the earth. </b></p><p>In this verse, Asaph refers to Jehovah as being "my King". Asaph probably lived during the reign of David. Surely, Asaph would have recognized David as being his king, and thus he certainly could have referred to David as "my king". The recognition of David as being Israel's king, however, does not give us any reason to imagine and assume that David is Jehovah, or that David is a person of Jehovah, etc. -- 2 Chronicles 8:11; 29:27.</p><div>John 18:37 - Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end have I been born, and to this end am I come into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice. </div><div><br /></div><div>Ellicott gives the meaning of Jesus' words as “To be king have I been born, and to be a king came I into the world, in order that I may bear witness unto the truth.” In effect, Jesus was evidently saying that he came into the world to bear witness to his being a king. At any rate, Jesus did come into the world as the Son of the Man, David, in order to sit upon David's throne as King. This certainly does not give any reason to imagine and assume that Jesus was saying that because he came into the world to be a king, he was saying he is Jehovah. </div><div><br /></div></div><div><div><b>Isaiah 43:15 - I am Jehovah, your Holy One, the Creator of Israel, your King. -- <i>World English</i>.</b></div><p>Here Jehovah speaks of Himself as being Sacred, or Set-Apart One who had created Israel. Jehovah created Israel through Jacob and his twelve sons. He kept them as a separate people while they were in the land of Egypt. He brought them out of Egypt and established his covenant with them. He was thus king of Israel before any human king had ever been appointed as king of Israel. (1 Samuel 8:7) Thus, Jehovah was king before the throne of David had been established. The throne of David is also the throne of Jehovah, because Jehovah established it, and the scriptures foretell the coming of one who sits forever upon the throne of David. -- 1 Kings 2:45; 9:5; Isaiah 9:7; Ezekiel 37:25; Luke 1:32,33.</p><p>Nothing in any of this means that we need to imagine and assume that Jesus is Jehovah any more than we would have any reason to think that David or Solomon is Jehovah because they sat on the throne of Jehovah. -- 1 Chronicles 29:23.</p><p><b>Jeremiah 10:10 - But Jehovah is the true God; he is the living God, and an everlasting King: at his wrath the earth trembleth, and the nations are not able to abide his indignation. -- <i>ASV.</i></b></p><p>In Jeremiah 10:2-4, Jehovah refers to the foolishness of the nations (Gentiles, Heathen) in their idolatrous practices. Whereas the idols formed by men are only temporary and actually have no power, Jehovah is the everlasting King. No one gives to Jehovah his Kingship. On the other hand, Jehovah gives to Jesus his kingship. -- Psalm 2:6; Isaiah 9:7; Daniel 7:13,14; Ezekiel 34:23,24; 37:24; Luke 1:32,33; Ephesians 1:3,17-23; Philippians 2:9-11.</p><div>Zechariah 14:9 -- Comments to be added later, God willing.</div><p><b>Matthew 2:1,2</b></p></div><p> Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod, the king, behold, wise men from the east came to Jerusalem, saying, "Where is he who is born King of the Jews? For we saw his star in the east, and have come to worship him." --<b> <i>World Englis</i>h</b>.</p><p>In the context we read:</p><p>Matthew 2:6 - 'You Bethlehem, land of Judah, Are in no way least among the princes of Judah: For out of you shall come forth a governor, Who shall shepherd my people, Israel'". -- <b><i>World English</i></b>.</p><p>Did these "wise men" come to worship Jesus as being Jehovah, the King who sat on his throne during the flood of Noah's day? No, they came to worship (give homage to) the one who was born King of Jews. </p><p>Matthew 2:6 relates how this born King of Jews is foretold by paraphrasing the prophecies of Micah 5:2,4 and Ezekiel 34:23 and Ezekiel 37:24. </p><p>Micah 5:2 - But you, O Bethlehem of Ephrathah, who are one of the little clans of Judah, from you shall come forth for me one who is to rule in Israel, whose origin is from of old, from ancient days. --<b><i> New Revised Standard Version</i></b>.</p><p>Micah 5:4 - And he shall stand, and shall feed his flock in the strength of Jehovah, in the majesty of the name of Jehovah his God: and they shall abide; for now shall he be great unto the ends of the earth. -- <b><i>American Standard Version</i></b>.</p><p>Micah 5:2 relates which tribe this King would come from. Micah 5:4 relates how this King is to shepherd the sheep in the strength of Jehovah, in the majesty of the name of Jehovah his God (ELOHIM). Rather than presenting Jesus as being Jehovah who sat on his throne in the flood of Noah's day, Jehovah is depicted as being Jesus' God, and Jesus' shepherds in the strength of Jehovah, his God. </p><p>Ezekiel 34:23 - And I will set up one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them, even my servant David; he shall feed them, and he shall be their shepherd. <br />Ezekiel 34:24 - And I, Jehovah, will be their God, and my servant David prince among them; I, Jehovah, have spoken it.<br />Ezekiel 37:24 - And my servant David shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in mine ordinances, and observe my statutes, and do them. -- <b><i>American Standard Version</i></b>.</p><p>Again, rather than presenting the foretold King-Shepherd as being Jehovah, the Messiah, depicted above as "David", is presented as being made the "one shepherd" appointed over Jehovah's sheep. Jesus claimed to be this one shepherd as recorded in John 10:11,14,16. In harmony with Ezekiel 34:23; 37:24, Jesus acknowledges that the sheep are given to him from Jehovah, the only true God (Omnipotent Mighty One) who had sent him. -- Isaiah 61:1,2; John 10:29; John 17:1-3,9.</p><p>Thus, the King of Jews spoken of in Matthew 2:1,2 is not Jehovah, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, but rather the king that Jesus' God, Jehovah has set up to shepherd his people.</p><p><b>Luke 19:32-38</b></p><p></p><blockquote><p>Those who were sent went away, and found things just as he had told them. As they were untying the colt, its owners said to them, "Why are you untying the colt?" </p><p>They said, "The Lord needs it." </p><p>They brought it to Jesus. They threw their cloaks on the colt, and set Jesus on them. As he went, they spread their cloaks in the way. As he was now getting near, at the descent of the Mount of Olives, the whole multitude of the disciples began to rejoice and praise God with a loud voice for all the mighty works which they had seen, saying, "Blessed is the King who comes in the name of Jehovah! Peace in heaven, and glory in the highest!" -- <b><i>Restoration Light Improved Version</i></b>.</p><p></p></blockquote><p>Rather than being the King who is Jehovah, Jesus is depicted as the King who comes in the name of Jehovah. This corresponds to the prophecy of Moses as given in Deuteronomy 18:15-19 as well as the prophecy of Psalm 118:16. Acts 3:13-26 applies the prophet in the prophecy of Deuteronomy 18:16-19 to Jesus. Jesus is not depicted as being Jehovah, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, but rather Jesus is depicted as the being servant of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Jehovah, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob raised up his servant to be the prophet like Moses.</p><p><b>Luke 1:32 - He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Most High: and [Jehovah] God shall give unto him the throne of his father David, -- <i>ASV, </i>with God's Holy Name supplied as "Jehovah".</b></p><p>Jehovah's Kingship is not given to him from anyone else; the Messiah's Kingship is given to him from his God, Jehovah, in whose strength he stands. -- Micah 5:4.</p><p>There is definitely nothing in the angel's declaration that says that Jesus is Jehovah because Jehovah has given the throne to Jesus. -- Psalm 2:6; Isaiah 9:7; Daniel 7:14; Ezekiel 34:23,24; 37:24; Acts 5:30,31; </p><p>Yes, it is Jehovah who gives the throne of David to the Messiah, and Jesus is to be the permanent king to sit on that throne. </p><p><b>Luke 23:3 - And Pilate asked him, saying, Art thou the King of the Jews? And he answered him and said, Thou sayest. </b></p><div>Again, showing that Jesus is the one whom God appointed to sit on Jehovah's throne as did Solomon and David (1 Chronicles 29:23), the throne of David. </div><p><br /></p><p>God willing, we will comment on the following scriptures later. However, it should be obvious that in none of these is Jesus being identified as being Jehovah, or a person of Jehovah.</p><div>John 19:21</div><p>Acts 17:7</p><div>1 Timothy 6:15</div>Ronald Dayhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01428695352830083280noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2081748873678351197.post-32519733338002763722023-04-01T19:33:00.006-07:002023-10-24T16:03:32.616-07:00ADON in Genesis 19:2 and Psalm 110:1.<p><span></span></p><a name='more'></a>There is often confusion concerning forms of the word often transliterated as ADON, especially as related to forms that appear in the Masoretic text often transliterated as ADONI and ADONAI. It is often stated that ADONAI is only used of the Most High, and ADONI is never used of Jehovah. This is partly true, in that the Masoretes several centuries after Christ supplied the extra vowel to form a plural intensive only in instances in which they believed it was in reference to Jehovah.<p></p><p>The Masoretic text has ADONAI, as a plural (not as a plural intensive), applied to the "men" in Genesis 19:2:</p><p>And he said, "See now, my lords [ADONAI], please turn aside into your servant's house, stay all night, wash your feet, and you will rise up early, and go on your way." They said, "No, but we will stay in the street all night." -- World English.</p><p>While some trinitarians make a big ado about the use of ADONAI in Genesis 19:2, it should be obvious that the usage is not meant to be applied as a plural intensive to Jehovah, but rather as a plural in speaking to the three angels.</p><p>Although we have not checked, there may be other instances in the Masoretic text where the form ADONAI is not used as a plural intensive, and may be applied to others than Jehovah.</p><p>One claims that the form of ADON used in Genesis 19:2 is not ADONAI, evidently based on a sound pronunciation given somewhere on a website.</p><p>First of all, looking at the actual letters in the original Hebrew would be meaningless, since the letters are the same for adoni and adonai. The actual letters are often designated in English as ALEPH - DALETH - NUWN - YOWD. The YOWD designates "my", while ALEPH - DALETH - NUWN designates "Lord". These letters are the same regardless of what vowel sounds are added by which one could form either the words we transliterate as ADONI or ADONAI. The Hebrew words transliterated as Adoni (my Lord) and Adonai (Sovereign Lord) differ only because the Masoretic scribes added the extra vowel point to make a distinction. No word in ancient Hebrew had any written vowels, but the vowels sounds were supplied to the words when spoken. It was not until several centuries after Jesus died for our sins that the Masoretes added, not letters as vowels, but rather what many refer to as vowel points, small marks that would indicate certain vowel sounds. Scholars are NOT agreed upon what English sounds actually correspond to the Hebrew characters and vowel points, and thus scholars have produced differing transliteration devices to transliterate these "vowel points" (as well as the Hebrew characters) into English letters; no one knows for a certainty that the English phonemes actually match the sounds intended by the Masoretes, and it is even less certain as to matching the exact sounds of the original Hebrew. Indeed, when the Masoretes started their work, the Hebrew language was already a dead language; thus, even the Masoretes could not be certain of the original sounds of the orginal Hebrew. As a result, much that people attribute as being transliterated sounds of any Hebrew word may, or may not, actually represent the sounds of the original Hebrew. No one on earth today knows for a certainty what the original Hebrew sounded like.</p><p>To further complicate this, Strong lists Adonai in Genesis 19:2 under his Hebrew #113 (Adon) rather than #136 which he evidently reserved for usages only when it is applied to Jehovah as a plural intensive, not as a plural.</p><p>Second, we do not know for a certainty that Abraham was addressing all three of the "men", although the context seems to indicate this to be the case. It is possible that Abraham was only addressing one of the "men" as representing all three, and thus that he used what we today say as "ADONI", a singular "my Lord", rather than "ADONAI", "my lords". Additionally, we do not know for a certainty that even if Abraham used ALEPH - DALETH - NUWN - YOWD as a plural, or that Abraham would have added the vowel sound that the Masoretes have given to the word in Genesis 19:2. </p><p>ALEPH (ALEF) is often given the soft "a" sound in English transliteration, although ALEPH is actually a consonant. Wikipedia states: "Phonetically, aleph originally represented the onset of a vowel at the glottis. In Semitic languages, this functions as a prosthetic weak consonant, allowing roots with only two true consonants to be conjugated in the manner of a standard three consonant Semitic root. In most Hebrew dialects as well as Syriac, the aleph is an absence of a true consonant, a glottal stop ([ʔ]), the sound found in the catch in uh-oh. In Arabic, the alif represents the<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleph" target="_blank"> glottal stop pronunciation when it is the initial letter of a word</a>."<br /></p><p><br />YOWD (YOD, YODH, JOD), although not actually a vowel, is often assumed to have a vowel sound in addition to a consonant sound, similar to the way "y" in English is a consonant, but also may be used as a vowel. Regarding its sound in ancient Hebrew, despite the claims often made, we cannot know for certain exactly how the YOWD was pronounced. It is possible, however, that in ancient Hebrew the YOWD character was never used as a vowel, but if it always had a consonant sound, it would seem that such would call for another vowel sound to accompany the consonant sound. Thus, if YOWD always had a sound similar to the "J" sound as used in the English "Joseph", then it would not be 'DNI, but 'DNJ, with would seem to need a vowel sound added before or after "J". </p><p>The point, however, is that the original written Hebrew itself does not make any written distinction between ADONI and ADONAI. This distinction was not made until several centuries after Jesus offered himself as a sacrifice for sin. Thus, except that one actually believes that the work of the Masoretes was inspired by God and infallible, one cannot point to the distinction they have given by means of adding vowel points as proof of anything.</p><p>The Etymological Origin of Adonai</p><p></p><blockquote>The problem of the root meaning of Adonai is very challenging because, when the first person singular affix is added, the Hebrew spellings for “my lords” (יַנֹדֲא –Genesis 19:2), for “my lord” ( ִנֹדֲא – Genesis 23:6), and for “Adonai” is (יָנֹדֲא –Genesis 18:31) are identical as to the Hebrew consonants. Only the vowel points added by the Masorites distinguish each of these Hebrew word forms.</blockquote><p></p><p>The above is a quote from:<br /><a href="http://www.biblicaltheology.com/Research/ManettiR01.pdf">www.biblicaltheology.com/Research/ManettiR01.pdf</a></p><p>Regarding Gingsburg's report of the possible 134 changes of the tetragrammaton to ADONAI, see my comments at:<br /><a href="http://nameofyah.blogspot.com/2017/02/is-scroll.html">nameofyah.blogspot.com/2017/02/is-scroll.html</a></p><p>We should not that no one on earth today knows for a certainty what ancient Hebrew sounded like, despite claims otherwise. All we have are various reconstructs based on hypotheses (often considered to be facts). </p><p>Regardless, in Genesis 19:2, the Masoretes evidently noted that Abraham was speaking to more than one person; therefore, they added the vowel point to make it plural (this would not be a plural intensive as when applied to Jehovah).</p><p>Another scripture that is often referred to regarding the usage of ADONAI/ADONI:</p><p>Psalm 110:1 - Yahweh says to my Lord, "Sit at my right hand, Until I make your enemies your footstool for your feet." -- <b><i>World English</i></b>.</p><p>It should be obvious that David's "lord" is not Jehovah ("Yahweh" in the <b><i>World English</i></b>) here, and thus the Masoretes did not supply the vowel point so as to create the form ADONAI, but left it as "ADONI", a singular "my lord". </p><p>Jehovah is distinguished as a single person (or, individual) from David's "lord". David's Lord is identified, not as Jehovah, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (Exodus 3:14,15), but as the one anointed and sent by Jehovah. -- Deuteronomy 18:15-19; Isaiah 61:1; Acts 2:34-36; Acts 3:13-26; Ephesians 1:20-22; Hebrews 1:1-3,9; 12:2; 1 Peter 3:22.</p><p>Some trinitarians have argued that the Masoretes made a mistake in Psalm 110:1 by not adding the vowel point to make the word ADONAI. They would then, by use of imagination and assumptions, claim that this is one person of Jehovah speaking to another person of Jehovah. Actually, "Jehovah" in Psalm 110:1, as throughout the entire Bible, is being presented as one person or individual, and is being distinguished from David's lord who sits at the right hand of Jehovah. The Bible is fully harmonious without calling upon the spirit of human imagination so as to add to and read into this verse, or any other verse, the trintarian dogma.</p><p>Contrary to what is often claimed, no form of ADON is ever presented in the Bible as a "name" of God. One could consider it a titular name similar to "Lord", "Master", "Sir", "Mister", etc.</p><div>The popular idea often stated as fact is that the Masoretes took vowel points they supplied for the ADONAI to use in the Tetragrammaton of God's Holy Name, supposedly to remind the reader to not pronounce the Holy Name but to say ADONAI instead of the Holy Name, Of course, in reality, this actually results in pronouncing the Holy Name as ADONAI. This actually results in mispronouncing God's Holy Name. While it may have been the custom to deliberately mispronounce God's Holy Name as ADONAI, there is no actual evidence that the Masoretes took vowel points from ADONAI or from the Masoretic ELOHIM to use in God's Holy Name. This idea appears to have been formulated sometime after the Masoretic text had been completed.</div><div><br /></div><div><a href="https://biblehub.com/text/genesis/19-2.htm" target="_blank">Bible Hub's Hebrew analysis of Genesis 19:2</a><br /></div><div><a href="https://biblehub.com/text/psalms/110-1.htm" target="_blank">Bible Hub's Hebrew analysis of Psalm 110:1</a></div><div><br /></div><div style="text-align: center;"><><><><><><><><><br /><br /></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjs4Rfo8heFjD0waobP7dAXB-U9CRHBktcvOdxKgldEpJcKJJGaKKQDrHsZfltB9mwAm24nMAgu3ZNe5ZQTQ79vKuhryBhgdDUvZpxyc7Am4ZfUIjfYBZ5KyFMjmo42_OEAFeepCQPkk8AOgobTyFGniiwg6S3tb-zedjbUsDZPjNWiyEFlRFR5V5ZJ4w/s240/240_F_83212890_2H5Jjne4Y9XE3oKXqQttlz69B45Ntnwm%20HKb.jpg" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="240" data-original-width="240" height="240" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjs4Rfo8heFjD0waobP7dAXB-U9CRHBktcvOdxKgldEpJcKJJGaKKQDrHsZfltB9mwAm24nMAgu3ZNe5ZQTQ79vKuhryBhgdDUvZpxyc7Am4ZfUIjfYBZ5KyFMjmo42_OEAFeepCQPkk8AOgobTyFGniiwg6S3tb-zedjbUsDZPjNWiyEFlRFR5V5ZJ4w/s1600/240_F_83212890_2H5Jjne4Y9XE3oKXqQttlz69B45Ntnwm%20HKb.jpg" width="240" /></a></div><br />Ronald Dayhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01428695352830083280noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2081748873678351197.post-4865371151849785022023-03-31T16:10:00.029-07:002023-04-01T09:30:29.358-07:00Deuteronomy 32:8,9 - Elyon, Jehovah, and the Trinity<p></p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><br /></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEilF_l2eMZL6oj5_vCuz9p_pi4NHrRPJ7xfN91-F7q_B-hag5rSEbMwJ8O00sTEgrOx5_nS57Lp9MAp5y7fr8oEsuoqTXlZINAEETCpsqsYU4FhAncvGADBEkJ1ZMvH9ApmCMI_n2yy3YxMkT-QnfEPIeJsAjHoCB6xPm1LQRlFnDmryYUcn4ul2I71XQ/s706/tuxpi.com.1680366308.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="689" data-original-width="706" height="195" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEilF_l2eMZL6oj5_vCuz9p_pi4NHrRPJ7xfN91-F7q_B-hag5rSEbMwJ8O00sTEgrOx5_nS57Lp9MAp5y7fr8oEsuoqTXlZINAEETCpsqsYU4FhAncvGADBEkJ1ZMvH9ApmCMI_n2yy3YxMkT-QnfEPIeJsAjHoCB6xPm1LQRlFnDmryYUcn4ul2I71XQ/w200-h195/tuxpi.com.1680366308.jpg" width="200" /></a></div>Deuteronomy 32:8,9 is sometimes cited by trinitarians as an Old Testament reference to their triune God philosophy. Their thought apparently is that "Most High" [transliterated from the Masoretic text as ELYON] in verse 8 is supposed to refer to one person of their triune God, and "Jehovah" [transliterated from the Masoretic text] in verse 9 is evidently supposed to refer to another person of their triune God. <p></p><div><b>Deuteronomy 32:8 - When the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance, When he separated the children of men, He set the bounds of the peoples According to the number of the children of Israel.<br />Deuteronomy 32:9 - For Jehovah's portion is his people; Jacob is the lot of his inheritance.</b> -- <b><i>American Standard Version.</i></b> </div><p><b>Deuteronomy 32:8 - When the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance, when he divided mankind, he fixed the borders of the peoples according to the number of the sons of God.<br />Deuteronomy 32:9 - But [Jehovah*]'s portion is his people, Jacob his allotted heritage.</b> -- <b><i>English Standard Version</i></b>, *edited to present God's Holy Name as "Jehovah".</p><p>We should note that the manuscripts do show a slight disagreement in reading in verse 8. The Masoretic text reads "sons of Israel" while a reading from one of the Dead Sea Scrolls reads "sons of God". Some apparently claim that "the expression sons of God" refers to the angels or to all the descendants of Adam. Actually, the children of Israel are referred to as sons of Jehovah in Deuteronomy 14:1, thus, it is more than likely that "sons of God" in verse 8 and "his people" of verse 9 are both one and the same. We believe that to be the most logical reasoning related to this, and thus the default understanding.</p><p>Nevertheless, some appear to read into this that the "Most High" [Elyon] is used in reference to the "sons of Adam" while "Jehovah" is used only in reference to the children of Israel. From this, it appears that they further claim that "Most High" refers to their alleged "God the Father" -- the assumed "first person" of their imagined triune God -- while "Jehovah" is claimed to be the second person of their imagined and assumed triune God. Of course, the idea of a triune God is not actually there or anywhere else in the entire Bible. The idea has to be assumed beyond what is stated and other assumptions have to be created, and these have to be added to and read into what is stated in order to "see" their triune God in Deuteronomy 32:8,9.</p><p>Some wish to make it appear that "Jehovah" in Deuteronomy 32:9 is Jesus and claim that Jesus is the God of Israel, while another person of the triune God is the God of the other nations. This, in effect, would mean that God who spoke through the prophets of the Old Testament is Jesus, which should make one wonder who is the son of Jesus as spoken of in Hebrews 1:1,2. The reality is that Jehovah in the Old Testament is the God and Father of Jesus. It was the God and Father of Jesus (Micah 5:4; Ephesians 1:3; 1 Peter 1:3) who spoke through Moses and foretold that the Messiah was to be a prophet like Moses. (Deuteronomy 18:15-19; Acts 3:13-26) Thus, Jesus is the "Son" through whom Jehovah now speaks. -- Deuteronomy 18:15-19; John 14:10,24; 17:1,8,24; Hebrews 1:1,2.</p><p>The scriptural conclusion is that Elyon and Jehovah are the same person. We find many scriptures in the Old Testament where ELYON is used as a title of Jehovah, the God of the Messiah (Isaiah 61:1,2; Micah 5:4). -- Numbers 2416; 1 Samuel 2.10; 2 Samuel 22.14; 23.1; Psalms 7.8, 10, 17; 9.2; 21.7; 46.4; 47.2; 50.14; 57.2; 73.11; 77.10; 78.17, 35, 56; 83.18; 87.5; 91.1,9; 92.1; 97.9; 107.11; Lamentations 3.35, 38; Daniel 3.26; 4.2, 17, 25, 32, 34; 5.18, 21; 7.18, 22, 25; Hosea 7.16.</p><p>There is no scriptural reason at all to think that ELYON in Deuteronomy 32:8 is not JEHOVAH of Deuteronomy 32:9. There is definitely nothing in either verse or anywhere else in the Bible that says that God is more than one person. </p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p>Ronald Dayhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01428695352830083280noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2081748873678351197.post-84596589465761855722023-03-27T09:58:00.007-07:002023-03-31T18:49:55.330-07:00Zechariah 14:4,5 -- Jehovah's Feet on the Mount of Olives<p>Zechariah 14:4-5 is sometimes presented as proof that Jesus is Jehovah as related to the doctrine of the trinity.</p><p></p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjalENh8yu89cDcAf9kx9Cs6XtL7EI5goSmdv09ORk_b3R_eAgRl0foYspmxTawvDEywxzUWk7XjrQzCLUjOQVsmxvfhSXLInML00YM57mM0uQ_pUabp2GIPmJ_yjgHE0Y9QDrOHaeq1cH0MykKi-YbTIHy2A3MBilfQA2pErL2iXDQcjPI-oEo957g3A/s606/Garden.jpg" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="412" data-original-width="606" height="218" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjalENh8yu89cDcAf9kx9Cs6XtL7EI5goSmdv09ORk_b3R_eAgRl0foYspmxTawvDEywxzUWk7XjrQzCLUjOQVsmxvfhSXLInML00YM57mM0uQ_pUabp2GIPmJ_yjgHE0Y9QDrOHaeq1cH0MykKi-YbTIHy2A3MBilfQA2pErL2iXDQcjPI-oEo957g3A/s320/Garden.jpg" width="320" /></a></div><b>Zechariah 14:3 Then Jehovah will go out and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.<br />Zechariah 14:4 His feet will stand in that day on the Mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east; and the Mount of Olives will be split in two, from east to west, making a very great valley. Half of the mountain will move toward the north, and half of it toward the south.<br />Zechariah 14:5 You shall flee by the valley of my mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach to Azel; yes, you shall flee, just like you fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Jehovah my God will come, and all the holy ones with you. </b>— <b><i>World English</i></b>, edited to present God's Holy Name as "Jehovah".<p></p><p>This speaks, not only of Jehovah as coming, but also the holy ones, the saints, who will come. We find nothing directly about Jesus in the verses, and there is definitely nothing that presents Jehovah as being more than one person. The idea that Jehovah is more than one person, and that Jesus is a person of Jehovah, has to imagine and assumed beyond what is stated, and then what has been imagined and assumed has to be added to, and read into what is stated.</p><p>Zechariah 14:4 tells us of a time when Jehovah will place his feet on the Mount of Olives. (verse 3) The prophecy then speaks of the Mount of Olives as being split in two parts. We know that Jesus literally was on the Mount of Olives at his first advent. (Matthew 21:1; 24:3; 26:30; Mark 11:1; 13:3; 14:26; Luke 19:37; 22:39; John 8:1; Acts 1:11,12) Some conclude that Jehovah is Jesus is Zechariah 14:4, and from that, they would imagine and assume that Jehovah is more than one person and that Jesus is a person of Jehovah. </p><p>Actually, Zechariah 14:4,5 is speaking figuratively. The Mount of Olives was not split at Jesus' feet during his first advent, so it should be apparent that it is not referring to Jesus' first advent. It is obviously referring to an event yet future. He whose "feet" are foretold to stand on the Mount of Olives is not Jesus, but rather Jehovah, the God of Jesus. (Micah 5:4) Jehovah, of course, does not have physical "feet", nor is it referring to the physical Mount of Olives being physically split into two parts.</p><div>Nevertheless, it certainly cannot be referring to the flesh of Jesus coming to standing on the Mount of Olives, for Jesus is no longer flesh, for he gave his body of flesh <a href="https://ransomforall.blogspot.com/2022/10/1pet3-18.html" target="_blank">in sacrifice to his God for our sins</a>. (John 6:51; Hebrews 10:10; 1 Peter 3:18) Verse three speaks of Jehovah as coming to fight as he did in the days of old. However, as other prophecies show, Jehovah will glorify the place of his feet, that is, the planet earth with man in charge, as it was His original purpose, but which has not yet been fulfilled due to Adam’s sin. — Genesis 1:26,27; Psalm 8:4-8; Romans 5:12; Hebrews 2:5-7.</div><p>Some refer to Matthew 25:31, evidently to make it appear that "Jehovah" in Zechariah is referring to Jesus.</p><p>Matthew 25:31 – But when the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the angels with him, then shall he sit on the throne of his glory.</p><p>Of course, the Son of the Man David will come and sit down on the throne of glory when he comes to judge the world. The Bible speaks, however, of Jehovah as coming to judge the world, and thus many imagine and assume that this means that Jesus is Jehovah, and/or that Jehovah is more than one person, etc. The reality is that Jehovah comes to judge through the person whom He has ordained. — Psalm 96:13; 98:9; Luke 1:32,35; John 5:22,23; Acts 10:42; 17:31; Romans 2:16; 1 Corinthians 4:5.</p><p>Nevertheless, Jehovah the Most High (Luke 1:32,35), having sent His Messiah, does all things through, by means of, Jesus, his son, the one whom He has ordained, appointed and anointed, and our salvation is from Jesus' God, through the son of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob , all to the glorification of the God of Jesus. — Psalm 2:6; 45:7; Isaiah 61:1; Matthew 11:27; 28:18; Luke 10:22; John 1:17; 3:35; 13:3; 16:15; Acts 4:27; Romans 3:24; 1 Corinthians 8:6; 15:27; 2 Corinthians 5:18; Ephesians 1:3,17,20-22; Philippians 2:11; Colossians 1:3,13,20; Hebrews 1:1,2; 1 Peter 4:11.</p><p>Nothing in any of this, however, means that we need to imagine and assume that Jesus is God Almighty, Jehovah, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, who is actually the God of Jesus. -- Isaiah 61:1,2; Micah 5:4; Acts 3:13-26; Ephesians 1:3.</p><p>While we may not agree with some of the details, one might study the following:</p><p><a href="http://www.mostholyfaith.com/beta/bible/volumes/D14.asp" target="_blank">Jehovah's Footstool Made Glorious</a></p><p><a href="https://www.htdbv8.com/1881/r286b.htm" target="_blank">Jehovah's Feet</a></p><p><br /></p><p>Picture of Mount of Olives taken in 1849 is in the public domain. Colorized by pallette.fm.</p><p><br /></p>Ronald Dayhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01428695352830083280noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2081748873678351197.post-18888452585875027812023-03-14T19:36:00.007-07:002024-02-11T20:27:48.882-08:00Who Is Jesus? - Response<div style="text-align: left;">
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<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiHNTNrvaa176-Uugt5-YyL4BdFEeU9VwgCi-0c4Lt4xVynHAOqcX9t_oRGtrFaC3Rj77mrgZmlxL26GNrBJn89UiLsw36Rm8T_KJCr_3GjfzACzqoaSV0P3mg2DAzaruYjPyv2kyECJfXg/s1600/msunr.jpg" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="225" data-original-width="159" height="200" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiHNTNrvaa176-Uugt5-YyL4BdFEeU9VwgCi-0c4Lt4xVynHAOqcX9t_oRGtrFaC3Rj77mrgZmlxL26GNrBJn89UiLsw36Rm8T_KJCr_3GjfzACzqoaSV0P3mg2DAzaruYjPyv2kyECJfXg/w141-h200/msunr.jpg" width="141" /></a></div><div style="text-align: left;">The discussions here are being moved to individual posts related to scripture(s) involved. God willing, once all has been moved elsewhere, this page will be removed. God willin, all scriptures presented will be included in the "<a href="https://jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/p/is-jesus-god.html" target="_blank">Is Jesus God?</a>" pages with links to related studies.</div><div style="text-align: left;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: center;"><><><><><><></div><div style="text-align: left;"><br /></div>
We will be here addressing the list of Will Daniels found in his book, "Understanding the Trinity". Many trinitarians often offer Daniel's list as supposedly proof of the trinity. This list has been floating around on various blogs and forums on the internet, and has been posted to us in several groups and forums, so we decided to address the list here for reference. Definitely, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is distinguished from being Jesus in Deuteronomy 18:15-19; Isaiah 61:1; Acts 3:13-21; Hebrews 1:1,2; Revelation 1:1. -- Ronald R. Day, Senior.<br />
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God's Holy Name is supplied as "Jehovah" as appropriate places regardless of which translation is being quoted.<br />
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<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="almighty"></a><b>IS JESUS THE ALMIGHTY?</b><br />
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It is claimed:<br />
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Genesis 17:1 (The Almighty is God) - Rev. 1:8 (Jesus is the Almighty)</blockquote>
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It is not Jesus who is speaking in Revelation 1:8, but rather the Almighty in Revelation 1:8 is the same one who is stated be "God" in Revelation 1:1, the one who is, was and is to come of Revelation 1:4 and who is distinguished from Jesus Christ of Revelation 1:5. Revelation 1:1 harmonizes with 1 Corinthians 8:6; the God and Father of Jesus is the source; Jesus is the instrument. Being that only the God and Father of Jesus is the source of all might, only the God and Father of Jesus is the Almighty. Jesus is never presented in the Bible as being the Almighty. There is definitely nothing here that gives anyone a reason to think beyond what is written so as to imagine, assume, add to, and read into the scriptures that Jesus is his God, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.</div>
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See our studies related to Revelation 1:8:<br />
<a href="https://jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/p/scriptures-examined.html#rev1-8" target="_blank">https://jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/p/scriptures-examined.html#rev1-8</a></div>
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<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="first"></a><b>JESUS AS FIRST AND LAST</b><br />
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It is claimed:</div>
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<span class="bbc_color">Isa, 44:6(The first and last is God) - Rev. 1:8, 22:13(Jesus is first and last)</span></blockquote>
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It is Jehovah, the God of Jesus, who refers to Himself to as Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last, in Revelation 22:13. In Revelation 1:8, the God of Jesus is speaking, not Jesus. It is possible that Revelation 1:8 was meant to be Revelation 2:8. "First and last" in Revelation 2:8 certainly refers to Jesus, but it cannot be referring to Jesus as being the Supreme Being, not unless one believes that the Supreme Being "was dead." .<br />
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See our studies related to "Alpha and Omega"<br />
<a href="https://jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/p/alpha-and-omega.html" target="_blank">https://jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/p/alpha-and-omega.html</a><br />
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<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="iam"></a><b><br /></b><b>IS JESUS THE I AM?</b><br />
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It is claimed:<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq" style="text-align: left;">
<span style="text-align: center;">Exodus 3:14 (The “I am” is God) – John 8:58 (Jesus is the “I am”)</span></blockquote>
Nowhere in John 8:58 does Jesus say that his name is EHJEH, or that he was the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, of Exodus 3:14,15, wherein the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob spoke to His prophet Moses. He who spoke to Moses is the Father of Jesus, as can be seen from Hebrews 1:1,2. However, the method that the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob may have used to speak to Moses in Exodus 3:14,15, could have been by means of one of His angels, Peter identifies this God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, not as being Jesus, but rather as having raised up Jesus as the prophet like Moses. (Deuteronomy 18:15-20; Acts 3:13-26) Nevertheless, Hebrews 1:1,2 lets us know that He who spoke to His prophet Moses was not Jesus, but rather the Father of Jesus.<br />
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In John 8:58, Jesus is speaking of his existence before Abraham. Any idea that he was claiming that his name is EHJEH of Exodus 3:14 has to be imagined, assumed, added to, and read into, what Jesus said.<br />
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See some of our studies related to John 8:58:<br />
<a href="https://jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/p/scriptures-examined.html#john8-58" target="_blank">https://jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/p/scriptures-examined.html#john8-58</a><br />
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<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="lord"></a><b>JESUS AS LORD OF LORDS</b></div>
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It is being claimed:<br />
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Deut. 10:17(The Lord of Lords is God) – Rev. 19:16 (Jesus is Lord of Lords)</div>
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We find nothing at all in Deuteronomy 10:17 or in Revelation 19:16 that means that we need to imagine, assume, add to, and read into the scriptures that Jesus is Jehovah. Anyone who is Lord over others who are also lords can be referred to as "Lord of lords." Jesus is certainly Lord over others who are also lords. So is his God; unlike Jesus, however, God needs no one to make him Lord over others who are Lords. (Psalm 45:7; Acts 2:36: Hebrews 1:9) The fact that the God and Father of Jesus had made Jesus such a Lord does not mean that we need to call upon the spirit of human imagination so as to assume and add to the scriptures that Jesus is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob<br />
See our studies:<br />
Lord of Lords and King of Kings<br />
<a href="https://jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/2016/12/rev17-14.html" target="_blank">https://jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/2016/12/rev17-14.html</a><br />
The Misuse of Similarities<br />
<a href="https://jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/2017/06/similarities.html" target="_blank">https://jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/2017/06/similarities.html</a><br />
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<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="rock"></a><b>JESUS AS THE ROCK</b><br />
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It is being claimed:<br />
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
Psalms 18:31 (The Rock is God) – I Corinthians 10:4 (Jesus is the Rock)</blockquote>
1 Corinthians 10:4<br />
kai pantes to auto pneumatikon epion poma<br />
AND ALL (ONES) THE VERY SPIRITUAL THEY DRANK DRINK,<br />
2532 3956 3588 0846_9 4152 4095 4188<br />
0846_98<br />
epinon gar ek pneumatikees akolouthousees<br />
THEY WERE DRINKING FOR OUT OF SPIRITUAL FOLLOWING<br />
4095 1063 1537 4152 0190<br />
petras hee petra de een ho christos<br />
ROCK MASS, THE ROCK MASS BUT WAS THE CHRIST;<br />
4073 3588 4073 1161 1511_3 3588 5547<br />
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Now all these things happened to them by way of example (Strong’s #5179, type, figure*), and they were written for our admonition, on whom the ends of the ages have come. — 1 Corinthians 10:11.<br />
http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/kjv/tupos.html<br />
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Again, we find nothing at all that says that Jesus is Jehovah, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob; again we find that one has to imagine beyond what is written in order to see such in what is actually written.<br />
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1 Corinthians 10:4 does not say “Jesus is the Rock”, but rather “the rock was Christ.” That rock that “was” IS not Jehovah God of Psalm 18:31, but rather it is the rock that Moses struck, which provided water for the children of Israel. That rock that Moses struck was, represented, the Anointed One, because it was a type, a figure, a representation of the coming Anointed One of Jehovah. Jesus used a form of the same verb in Matthew 11:14, saying, “If you are willing to receive it, this is Elijah, who is to come.” In saying “this is Elijah”, he was not saying that John the Baptist was actually Elijah, but rather that Elijah was a type, a figure, of John the Baptist, in that they both did a similar work. Likewise, the Rock that provided water for the children of Israel is a type of the Christ, the Anointed One, who provides living water (from his God). — John 4:10,13; 7:16; 1 Corinthians 8:6.<br />
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See our study:<br />
That Rock Was Christ<br />
<a href="https://jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/2016/11/rock.html" target="_blank">https://jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/2016/11/rock.html</a></div>
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<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="reign"></a><b>REIGN FOREVER</b><br />
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It is being claimed:<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
Psalms 146:10 (God shall reign forever)- Luke 1:33 (Jesus will reign forever)</blockquote>
The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, by means of his holy spirit, reveals through the scriptures that Jesus receives his inheritance and dominion (power and authority to rule) from Jehovah. His power and authority is given to him by his God, who is the Supreme Being over Jesus. Jesus is not Jehovah [his God and Father] who gives him this dominion, all authority and power (with the evident exception of the position of being the Most High himself -- 1 Corinthians 15:27), yet the exercise of this power and authority by Jesus is all to the praise of Jehovah, the God and Father of the Lord Jesus. The Bible writers never claimed that Jesus is the ultimate "source" of his own power. -- Deuteronomy 18:15-19; Psalm 2:6-8; 45:7; 110:1,2; Isaiah 9:6,7; 11:2; 42:1; 61:1-3; Jeremiah 23:5; Ezekiel 34:23,24; 37:24; Daniel 7:13,14; Micah 5:4; Matthew 12:28; 28:18; Luke 1:32; 4:14,18; 5:17; John 3:34; 5:19,27,30; 10:18,36-38; Acts 2:22,36; 3:13-26; 10:38; Romans 1:1-4; 1 Corinthians 15:27; 2 Corinthians 13:4; Colossians 1:15,16; 2:10; Ephesians 1:3,17-23; Philippians 2:9-11; Hebrews 1:2,4,6,9; 1 Peter 3:22.<br />
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Yes, the God and Father of Jesus will indeed reign forever by means of His Son. Thus, the rulership that the God and Father of Jesus gives to Jesus will be forever. (Daniel 7:18) This does not mean that we need to imagine, assume, add to, and read into the scripture that God's Son is God Himself (oneness belief), or that His Son is a person of Himself (trinitarian).<br />
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<b>All Things Through, By Means of, Jesus</b><br />
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The one individual who is most the Most High Jehovah (Luke 1:32,35), having sent His Messiah, does all things through, by means of, Jesus, his son, the one whom He has ordained, appointed and anointed, and our salvation is from the God of Jesus, through the son of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, all to the glorification of the God and Father of Jesus. — Psalm 2:6; 45:7; Isaiah 61:1; Matthew 11:27; 28:18; Luke 10:22; John 1:17; 3:35; 13:3; 16:15; Acts 4:27; Romans 3:24; 1 Corinthians 8:6; 15:27; 2 Corinthians 5:18; Ephesians 1:3,17,20-22; Philippians 2:11; Colossians 1:3,13,20; Hebrews 1:1,2; 1 Peter 4:11.<br />
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The God and Father of Jesus comes to judge through — by means of — His son. — Psalm 96:13; 98:9; Luke 1:32,35; John 5:22,23; Acts 10:42; 17:31; Romans 2:16; 1 Corinthians 4:5.<br />
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The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob speaks and performs His works through His son. — Deuteronomy 18:18,19; John 3:34; 5:19; 6:38; 7:16,28,29; 8:28,38,40; 12:29; 14:10; 17:8; Acts 3:13-26; 1 Corinthians 8:6; Hebrews 1:1,2.<br />
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Nothing in any of this means that we need to imagine and assume that Jesus is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jaocb.</div>
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<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="shepherd"></a><b>JESUS AS THE SHEPHERD</b><br />
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It is claimed:<br /><blockquote class="tr_bq">Isaiah 40:11 (The Shepherd is God) – John 10:16 (Jesus is the Shepherd)</blockquote>
No one appoints Jehovah God as shepherd, and no one gives the sheep to Jehovah. Jehovah foretold, however, that he would “set up one shepherd” over his sheep. (Ezekiel 34:23) Jesus claimed to be that one genuine shepherd, as he claimed that his God and Father had given the sheep to him. — John 10:11,14,16,29.<br />
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There is nothing in any of this that means that we need to imagine, assume, add to, and read into the scriptures that Jesus is his God, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.<br />
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See:<br />
The One Shepherd</div>
<a href="https://jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/2016/11/good-shepherd.html" target="_blank">https://jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/2016/11/good-shepherd.html</a><br />
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<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="redeemer"></a><b>THE REDEEMER</b></div>
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It is claimed:<br /><blockquote class="tr_bq">Isaiah 41:14 (The Redeemer is God) – Luke 1:68 (Jesus is the Redeemer)</blockquote>
Don’t be afraid, you worm Jacob, and you men of Israel; I will help you, says Jehovah, and your Redeemer is the Holy One of Israel. — Isaiah 41:14.<br />
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Blessed be Jehovah, the God of Israel, For he has visited and worked redemption for his people; — Luke 1:68<br />
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Luke 1:68 is not speaking of Jesus, but rather Jehovah. The word “visit”, especially when in reference to Jehovah, is used in the sense of giving attention to. Jehovah often visited — gave his attention — his people for many different reasons in the Old Testament, and often He used someone as an instrument of his purpose for visiting His people. Likewise, Jehovah, in sending His son, Jesus, was visiting — giving attention to — his people for the purpose of redemption.<br />
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<a href="http://www.biblestudytools.com/search/?q=Jehovah+visit&c=&t=asv&ps=100&s=Bibles" target="_blank">http://www.biblestudytools.com/search/?q=Jehovah+visit&c=&t=asv&ps=100&s=Bibles</a><br />
<a href="http://www.biblestudytools.com/search/?q=Jehovah+visited&c=&t=asv&ps=100&s=Bibles" target="_blank">http://www.biblestudytools.com/search/?q=Jehovah+visited&c=&t=asv&ps=100&s=Bibles</a><br />
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See our study:<br />
God Visited His People<br />
<a href="https://jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/2019/05/luk1-68.html" target="_blank">https://jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/2019/05/luk1-68.html</a><br />
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<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="iamhe"></a><b>I AM HE</b><br />
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It is claimed:<br /><blockquote class="tr_bq">Isaiah 43:10 (God said, “I am he”) – John 8:24 (Jesus said, “I am he”)</blockquote>
Again, one has to imagine and assume that since Jehovah said something in Hebrew in Isaiah 43:10 as related to Himself, and that since Jesus said something similar in John 8:24 (although he was speaking of something entirely different), that this means that Jesus is Jehovah of Isaiah 43:10.<br />
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In Isaiah 43:10, the Hebrew phrase is usually transliterated as “ANI HU”, which literally means “I – he”. The Hebrew does not have a copulative of “to be”, but such is thus supplied by translators with forms of the English “to be”; in the case of Isaiah 43:10, it becomes, “I am he”. In the LXX as we have it, we find the koine Greek form often transliterated as EIMI, making it EGO EIMI, which literally means “I am”, and the word “he” is left to be understood in the Koine Greek as being the object. It is from this that many trinitarians (and some others) make a connection between EGO EIMI of the LXX and with several other places where Jesus uses the Greek form EGO EIMI, when speaking of himself. In Isaiah 43:10, it is obvious that Jehovah was claiming to be Jehovah, the God of Israel, before whom none of the gods of heathen existed, and none of these idols will exist after him (since Jehovah will never cease to exist, but these idols gods will cease to exist).<br />
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It is often claimed that this phrase is never used by anyone but Jehovah. It is a phrase that would hardly ever be used by anyone, and while it may be true that the exact phrase is not used by anyone else as recorded in the Hebrew Old Testament, we find that David did use the two words of himself as recorded in 1 Chronicles 21:17, although the two words are separated by several words in between. Likewise, with the Greek expression, EGO EIMI; as used without an object, it would not often be used by anyone in the Bible. In John 9:9, we find that a blind man used it of himself, not with any thought that anyone would think that he was claiming to be Jehovah God, but rather that he was simply expressing that he was the one who had been healed by Jesus.<br />
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See also:<br />
<a href="https://jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/p/scriptures-examined.html#john8-24" target="_blank">https://jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/p/scriptures-examined.html#john8-24</a><br />
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<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="savior"></a><b>THE SAVIOR</b><br />
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It is claimed:<br />
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Isaiah 43:10,11 (God is the Saviour) – Luke 2:11 (Jesus is the Saviour)<br />
Isaiah 45:21 (The One Saviour is God) – Acts 4:12 (Jesus is the One Saviour)<br />
Isaiah 43:10,11(God is the only Saviour)- Titus 1:4 (Jesus is the only Saviour)<br />
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Isaiah 43:10,11; 45:21 speaks of Jehovah as being the savior of Israel, which he did when he brought Israel out of Egypt (Exodus 3:8; 6:6-8; 12:51; Deuteronomy 32:12; Isaiah 43:1,3; 45:11), and many times later. At the same time, we read that it was Moses who brought the children of Israel out of Egypt. (Exodus 3:10; Acts 7:36,40) Does this mean that Moses is Jehovah? No, but rather, the Psalmist says to Jehovah: “You led your people like a flock, By the hand of Moses and Aaron.”. (Psalm 77:20) Jehovah acted through His agent, Moses.<br />
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Additionally, we read that when Israel came to later be in need of deliverance. Jehovah himself did not come and personally deliver them, but He sent saviors to deliver them. (Nehemiah 9:27) Judges 2:16 tells us: “Jehovah raised up judges, who saved [yasha`] them out of the hand of those who despoiled them.” And Nehemiah 9:27: “Therefore you delivered them into the hand of their adversaries, who distressed them: and in the time of their trouble, when they cried to you, you heard from heaven; and according to your manifold mercies you gave them saviors [Hebrew, Yasha`] who saved [Hebrew, Yasha`] them out of the hand of their adversaries.” Some of the saviors sent by Jehovah included: Othniel – Judges 3:9; Gideon – Judges 6:13,14; 8:22; Gideon’s 700: Judges 7:7; Samson – Judges 13:5; David – 2 Samuel 3:18. Jehovah sent these saviors who acted in his name and with his power and authority. Additionally, of the coming kingdom age, we read that ” "And saviours shall come up on mount Zion to judge the mount of Esau; and the kingdom shall be Jehovah’s.” (Obadiah 1:21) Such saviors were/will not be “besides (apart from)” (Isaiah 43:11) Jehovah, since they were sent by Jehovah, and thus Jehovah was working through, by means of, these servants whom he sent.<br />
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The scriptures abound with cases where Jehovah uses various servants but is given the credit for their actions, since He was the directing force. — Exodus 3:10,12; 12:17; 18:10; Numbers 16:28; Judges 2:6,18; 3:9,10; 6:34; 11:29; 13:24,25; 14:6,19; 15:14,18; 16:20,28-30, 2 Kings 4:27; Isaiah 43:11, 45:1-6; etc.<br />
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Likewise, we read concerning Jesus, “God has sent his only begotten Son into the world that we might live through him.” (1 John 4:9) “God … sent his Son as the atoning sacrifice for our sins.” (1 John 4:10) “God was, by means of Christ. reconciling the world to himself.” (2 Corithians 5:19) God who sent His Messiah is definitely one person who is "Jehovah" in Isaiah 61:1, and Jesus is excluded from being Jehovah who anointed and sent Jesus. This agrees with what Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians 8:6, that all is of God, through Jesus.<br />
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There is nothing in any of these scriptures, however, that say that Jesus is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob; such an assumption, if applied consistently in other scriptures, would mean that all those whom Jehovah sent as saviors must also be Jehovah, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.<br />
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See:<br />
No Savior Besides Jehovah<br />
<a href="https://notrinity.blogspot.com/2011/07/yah-savior.html" target="_blank">https://notrinity.blogspot.com/2011/07/yah-savior.html</a><br />
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<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="holyone"></a><b>THE HOLY ONE</b><br />
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It is claimed:<br />
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Isaiah 43:15 (The Holy One is God) – Acts 3:14 (Jesus is the Holy One)<br />
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Acts 3:14 – But you denied the Holy and Righteous One, and asked for a murderer to be granted to you.<br />
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Contrary to what some have imagined and assumed, Acts 3:14 DOES NOT proclaim Jesus as being the Holy One of Israel of Isaiah 43:15, but rather that he is the Holy and Righteous One. He was sanctified, made holy, by his God, and sent into the world of mankind. (John 10:36) His God gave him a body of flesh that was uncontaminated with the taint of sin through Adam. (Matthew 1:20; Romans 5:12-19; Hebrews 2:9; 10:5) Thus, Jesus, in becoming flesh, was upright — straight, righteous — as was Adam before Adam sinned. (Ecclesiastes 7:29) Unlike Adam, Jesus never fell short of the glory of God due to sin. (Romans 3:23; 2 Corinthians 5:21; Hebrews 4:15; 1 John 3:5) Thus, Jesus was indeed the one made Holy by his God, and he was indeed “the righteous one” — the only man in history who remained sinless (obedient to God) all of his life even until he died. — Philippians 2:8.<br />
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Again, what we find is that one has to call upon the spirit of human imagination so as to read into Acts 3:14 something that it does not say, for it certainly does not say that Jesus is Jehovah, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. And if Peter was indeed making Jesus out to be the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, then it was not the man Jesus who was killed, but it was God Almighty Himself who was killed (Acts 3:15). In reality, Acts 3:13 and Acts 3:15 distinguish the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob from being Jesus, showing the Jesus was the foretold prophet whom the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob was to raise up, and that the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob also raised Jesus from the dead. — Deuteronomy 18:15-20.<br />
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See our study:<br />
Is Jesus the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob?<br />
<a href="https://jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/2019/05/god-of-abraham.html" target="_blank">https://jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/2019/05/god-of-abraham.html</a><br />
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<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="king"></a><b>KING OF ISRAEL</b><br />
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It is claimed:<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
Isaiah 43:15(God is King of Israel) – Matt. 27:37(Jesus is King of Israel)<br />
Isa. 44:6 (The King of Israel is God) – John 1:49 (Jesus is King of Israel)</blockquote>
There is again nothing in the title “King of Israel”, that designates Jesus as being Jehovah, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. One has to imagine and assume that this title is being applied both to Jehovah and to Jehovah’s anointed in some way so as to mean that Jehovah’s anointed is Jehovah who anointed him. To get “trinity” into this, one then has to further imagine and add to the scripture that this means that Jesus is a person of Jehovah, etc.<br />
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Actually, it is Jehovah who makes Jesus to rule on David’s throne; David also, by the way, was also spoken of in the Bible as “king of Israel” and “king over Israel.” Should we think that David is Jehovah? — 2 Samuel 5:3,17; 6:2; 1 Chronicles 14:2,8; 2 Chronicles 29:27; 30:26; 35:4; Ezra 3:10; Proverbs 1:1.<br />
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David, nonetheless, acknowledged his God as also King. — Psalm 145:1.<br />
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Additionally, there are many who have been designated “king of Israel”.<br />
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<a href="http://www.biblestudytools.com/search/?q=%22king+of+israel%22&c=&t=web&ps=100&s=Bibles" target="_blank">http://www.biblestudytools.com/search/?q=%22king+of+israel%22&c=&t=web&ps=100&s=Bibles</a><br />
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Jehovah, however, is King of Israel due to His being the former of Israel (Isaiah 43:1; 44:2), and due to the covenant that was made with Israel. (Exodus 34:27) Jehovah, who spoke to and through his prophet, Moses, was not Jesus, but rather the God and Father of Jesus. -- Hebrews 1:1,2.<br />
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<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="knee"></a><b>EVERY KNEE MUST BOW</b><br />
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It is claimed:<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
Isa. 45:23 - (Every knee must bow-God) – Phil. 2:10-11 (Every knee must bow-Jesus)</blockquote>
By myself have I sworn, the word is gone forth from my mouth [in] righteousness, and shall not return, that to me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear. — Isaiah 45:23.<br />
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In Isaiah 45:23, it is foretold that every knee must bow to Jehovah.<br />
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Philippians 2:10-11:<br />
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That at the name of Jesus every knee would bow, of those in heaven, those on earth, and those under the earth, and that every tongue would confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God, the Father. -- <b><i>World English</i></b>.<br />
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In Philippians 2:10,11, we do not find it stated that the people actually bow to Jesus, but that they bow “at/in the name of Jesus” to the glory of God, the Father — the only true God (John 17:5). “God” is being identified as one person or individual, and Jesus is distinguished from that One who is identified as being “God”. This agrees with Jesus’ statement in John 17:1,3, where Jesus refers to his God and Father as the “only true God”. It also agrees with Paul’s statement that there is to the believers in Christ only one God, who is the Father, of whom is “the all”. (1 Corinthians 8:6) The only true God does “all” through the one whom He has made “lord”, and thus, all must confess Jesus as being the “lord” anointed by Jehovah. — Isaiah 61:1; Ezekiel 37:24,25; Micah 5:2-4; Matthew 28:19; John 3:35; 5:22-29; Acts 2:33,36; 4:11; 5:31; 10:42; Romans 14:9; 1 Corinthians 15:27; Ephesians 1:3,17-23; Philippians 2:9.<br />
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See our study:<br />
<a href="https://jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/2017/06/exalted.html" target="_blank">Jesus' Exaltation to a Name Above All Names</a><br />
<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="husband"></a><br /><b>ONE HUSBAND</b><br />
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It is claimed:<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
Jeremiah 31:32 (God, the One Husband) – II Cor. 11:2 (Jesus-The One Husband)</blockquote>
Jeremiah 31:32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they broke, although I was a husband to them, says Jehovah.<br />
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This is speaking of Jehovah as being figuratively a husband to the children of Israel under the old Law Covenant.<br />
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2 Corinthians 11:2 For I am jealous over you with a godly jealousy: for I espoused you to one husband, that I might present you [as] a pure virgin to Christ.<br />
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It is evidently being imagined and assumed that no one can be accounted as being a figurative husband except Jehovah? I know of no scripture that says such.<br />
<br />
In reality, 2 Corinthians 11:2 does not speak of Jehovah as being a husband to Israel under the Law Covenant, but Paul is speaking of Jesus with whom Jehovah has made a covenant for Kingdom through Abraham. (Genesis 22:18; Luke 22:29; Galatians 3:26) Jesus, in turn, offers that covenant to his followers (Luke 22:29; Galatians 3:26-29), by which Jesus, not Jehovah, becomes figuratively a husband to those who become his bride (Revelation 21:9) through the Abrahamic covenant, which was made with Abraham 430 years before the Law Covenant. — Galatians 3:17,18.<br />
<br />
There is nothing in any of this that means that Jesus is Jehovah.<br />
<br />
See our study:<br />
<a href="https://bible-covenants.blogspot.com/2018/09/kingdom.html" target="_blank">New Covenant Vs. Covenant for a Kingdom</a><br />
<br />
<br />
<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="pierced"></a><b>THE ONE PIERCED</b><br />
<br />This has been moved to:<br /><a href="https://reslight.boards.net/post/2482/thread">https://reslight.boards.net/post/2482/thread</a><br /><br />
<br />
<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="comes"></a><b>GOD COMES, JESUS COMES -- </b>Zechariah 14:4-5 and Matthew 25:31</div><div style="text-align: left;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: left;">
It is claimed:<br />
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
Zechariah 14:4-5 (God is coming) – Matthew 25:31 (Jesus is coming)<br />
“Thus saith Jehovah, Heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool.” “And I will make the place [footstool] of my feet glorious.” “And his [Jehovah’s] feet shall stand in that day upon the Mount of Olives.” Isa. 60:13; 66:1; Zech. 14:4; Matt. 5:35; Acts 7:49</blockquote>
<br /></div><div style="text-align: left;">
See: <a href="https://jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/2023/03/jf.html" target="_blank">Jehovah's Feet on the Mount of Olives</a><br />
<br />
<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="master"></a><b>MASTER</b><br />
<br />
It is claimed:<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
Malachi 1:6 (The One Master is God) – Matthew 23:8 (Jesus is the One Master)</blockquote>
A son honors his father, and a servant his master. If then I am a father, where is My honor? And if I am a master, where is My fear? says Jehovah of Hosts to you, O priests who despise My name. But you say, In what have we despised Your name? — Malachi 1:6, Green’s Literal.<br />
<br />
But don’t you be called ‘Rabbi,’ for one is your teacher, the Christ, and all of you are brothers. — Matthew 23:8, World English.<br />
<br />
The Hebrew word translated as “master’ in Malachi 1:6 is a form of the word often transliterated as adon (Strong’s Hebrew #410). Forms of ADON (usually given in the Masoretic text in a form often transliterated as ADONAI or ADONAY -- <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pluralis_excellentiae" target="_blank">plural intensive</a> when it is thought to apply to Jehovah) are used of Jehovah many times in the Old Testament, usually in connection with his Holy Name, often rendered as "<a href="https://www.studylight.org/desk/index.cgi?sr=1&search_form_type=general&q1=%22Lord+Jehovah%22&s=0&t1=en_asv" target="_blank">Lord Jehovah</a>." The word is not given as ADONAI in Malachi 1:6; indeed it is not directly applied to Jehovah, but Jehovah is stating a general principle.<br />
<br />
The Greek word that corresponds to this is often transliterated as “KURIOS” (Strong’s Greek #2962)<br />
<br />
No form of KURIOS appears in Matthew 23:8.<br />
<br />
Nevertheless, Jesus is the “one lord” that the Lord Jehovah has anointed and made lord over the church, as well as the dead and living. (Isaiah 61:1; Acts 2:36; Romans 14:9; 1 Corinthians 8:6) This does not mean that the Lord Jehovah made Jesus to be the Lord Jehovah. Jesus is not the Lord Jehovah who made Jesus to be one Lord, nor is the Lord Jehovah the Lord whom the Lord Jehovah has made to be “Lord”.<br />
<br />
There is definitely nothing in these scriptures that means we need to imagine and assume that the Lord Jesus is the Lord Jehovah.<br />
<br />
For links to some of our related studies:<br />
<a href="https://jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/p/one-lord.html">https://jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/p/one-lord.html</a><br />
<br />
<b><br /></b>
<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="father"></a><b>JESUS IS THE FATHER?</b><br />
<br />
It is being claimed:<br />
<br />
Malachi 2:10 (God is the Father) – John 14:5-9, Isaiah 9:6, (Jesus is the Father)</div><div style="text-align: left;"><br />
In Malachi 2:20; John 14:5-9 and Isaiah 9:6, it is the God and Father of Jesus (Acts 3:13-26; Ephesians 1:3; 1 Peter 1:3; Hebrews 1:1,2) who is designated as being the Father. Jesus does not claim to be the Father at any time or any place, although, in a sense, he does become father to the human race in the regeneration of the human race. This, however, does not mean that he becomes his God and Father.<br />
<br />
Names applied to individuals and places in the Bible often describe God, not the person or thing to which the name is given. Likewise, the meaning of the name given to the Son in Isaiah 9:6 should be understood as being applied to Jehovah of Hosts (Isaiah 9:7), the God and Father of the Son given, no to the Son himself.<br />
<br />
<a href="https://jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/p/scriptures-examined.html#isa9-6" target="_blank">CLICK HERE</a> for studies related to Isaiah 9:6:<br />
<br />
Rather than showing that Jesus is the Father, John 14:6 shows that Jesus is the way to the Father. One can only be reconciled to the Father by means of Jesus if one recognizes the works of the only true God in Jesus. The Jewish leaders “saw” Jesus’ flesh, but they did not “see” the Father in him, for they did not believe that Jesus came from God.<br />
<br />
See our study:<br />
<a href="https://jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/2017/03/john14-7.html" target="_blank">Seeing the Father in Jesus</a><br />
<br />
<br />
<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="onegod"></a><b>THE TRUTH ABOUT THE ONE GOD</b><br />
<br />
It is being claimed:<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
You should know the truth about ONE GOD!!!</blockquote>
The truth, as revealed in the Bible, is that the “one God” — the one Supreme Being — is identified, not as Jesus, but rather as the God and Father of Jesus. — 1 Corinthians 8:6; Ephesians 1:3; 4:16; 1 Timothy 2:5,6; 1 Peter 1:3.<br />
<br />
<a href="https://jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/p/one-god.html" target="_blank">CLICK HERE</a> for links to some related studies.<br />
<br />
<b><br /></b>
<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="manifest"></a><b>GOD MANIFEST IN THE FLESH</b><br />
<br />
It is being claimed:<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
GOD was manifest (not God the son) in the flesh 1Tim.3:16…</blockquote>
This evidently is claiming that God the Son was not being spoken of in 1 Timothy 3:16 as being manifested in the flesh, but rather that it was God the Father who is being spoken in this verse as being manifested in the flesh. We are not sure why this idea would be thought to mean that Jesus is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.<br />
<br />
The fact is that there are variant readings of this verse. It appears that later manuscripts were altered to read “God”. Nevertheless, the topic of 1 Timothy 3:16 is the mystery of godliness, of the Christian’s piety toward God, which is related to the rest of the sentence following “mystery of godliness”. There is definitely nothing there that says that Jesus is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.<br />
<br />
See:<br />
<a href="https://jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/p/1-timothy.html#1tim3-16" target="_blank">https://jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/p/1-timothy.html#1tim3-16</a><br />
<br />
<br />
<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="knowing"></a><b>KNOWING THE ONE GOD</b><br />
<b><br /></b>
It is being claimed:<br />
<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
You should know the truth of ONE GOD 2Tes.1:8.</blockquote>
2 Thessalonians 1:8 - giving vengeance to those who don’t know God, and to those who don’t obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. -- World English<br />
<br />
Evidently this verse is cited in an effort to condemn anyone who does not believe that Jesus is God. It is not clear how this is supposed to support the idea that Jesus is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. The scripture is speaking of the vengeance to be given in the age to come. Those of that age who, after having been taught who God is, and having been given every opportunity to know Jehovah, but who refuse to know Him will suffer the final vengeance of eternal destruction.</div><div style="text-align: left;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: left;">"God" in 2 Thessalonians 1:8 refers to only one person. the same one person who is "God" in 2 Thesslonians 1:1,2,12.<br />
<br />
Nothing here says that Jesus is the “one God” of believers; in fact, it distinguishes “God” from “our Lord Jesus”.<br />
<br />
<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="fullness"></a><b>FULLNESS OF THE GODHEAD</b><br />
<br />
The following is given:<br />
<blockquote class="tr_bq">
Colossians 2:8-11 KJV<br />
Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:</blockquote>
Colossians 2:8<br />
blepete mee tis humas estai ho<br />
BE YOU LOOKING AT NOT SOMEONE YOU WILL BE THE (ONE)<br />
0991 3361 5100 4771_7 1511_4 3588<br />
sulagwgwn dia tees philosophias kai kenees<br />
LEADING AS BOOTY THROUGH THE PHILOSOPHY AND EMPTY<br />
4812 1223 3588 5385 2532 2756<br />
apatees kata teen paradosin twn anthrwpwn<br />
SEDUCTION ACCORDING TO THE TRADITION OF THE MEN,<br />
0539 2596 3588 3862 3588 0444<br />
kata ta stoicheia tou kosmou kai ou<br />
ACCORDING TO THE ELEMENTARY THINGS OF THE WORLD AND NOT<br />
2596 3588 4747 3588 2889 2532 3756<br />
kata christon<br />
ACCORDING TO CHRIST;<br />
2596 5547<br />
Colossians 2:9<br />
hoti en autw katoikei pan to pleerwma tees<br />
BECAUSE IN HIM IS DWELLING DOWN ALL THE FULLNESS OF THE<br />
3754 1722 0846_5 2730 3956 3588 4138 3588<br />
theoteetos swmatikws<br />
GODSHIP BODILY,<br />
2320 4985<br />
Colossians 2:10<br />
kai este en autw pepleerwmenoi hos estin hee<br />
AND YOU ARE IN HIM (ONES) HAVING BEEN FILLED, WHO IS THE<br />
2532 1510_4 1722 0846_5 4137 3739 1510_2 3588<br />
kephalee pasees archees kai exousias<br />
HEAD OF ALL GOVERNMENT AND OF AUTHORITY,<br />
2776 3956 0746 2532 1849 — <a href="http://www.westcotthort.com/books/Westcott_Hort_Interlinear.pdf" target="_blank"><b><i>Westcott & Hort Interlinear</i></b></a><br />
<br />
We assume that these verses are presented as being proof that Jesus is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.<br />
<br />
The word transliterated above as “pleerwma” means plenitude, full amount, abundance, as related to what is being spoken of.<br />
http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/nas/pleroma.html<br />
<br />
The word transliterated above as theoteetos is an abstract form theos, which therefore refers to the quality of theos, that is, the quality of deity based on Hebrew EL (Strong's 410), mightiness.<br />
<a href="http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/nas/theotes.html" target="_blank">http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/nas/theotes.html</a><br />
<a href="http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/nas/theos.html" target="_blank">http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/nas/theos.html</a><br />
<a href="http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/hebrew/nas/el.html" target="_blank">http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/hebrew/nas/el.html</a><br />
<br />
See also our study:<br />
<a href="https://jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/2016/09/hebraicusage.html" target="_blank">The Hebraic Usage of the Titles for “God”</a><br />
<br />
The word bodily does not refer the fleshly, physical, terrestrial body of Jesus, for he was put to death in flesh, but made alive in the spirit. He now has a spiritual body, a body of “celestial”, not terrestrial glory. — 1 Corinthians 15:39-41; 1 Peter 3:18.<br />
<br />
See our studies related to: <a href="https://bible-hope.blogspot.com/p/res-body.html" target="_blank">Jesus' Resurrection Body</a><br />
<br />
Conclusion: Jesus now has the plentitude of mightiness in his present body that is needed for him to be “the head of all principality and power.” (Colossians 2:10) This headship is that which has been given to him by the only true Supreme Being, his being given such mightiness excludes him from being the Supreme Being who exalted him. — Ephesians 1:3,17-23; 1 Corinthians 15:27; Philippians 2:9.<br />
<br />
See links to more studies related to Colossians 2:9:<br />
<a href="https://jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/p/scriptures-examined.html#col2-9" target="_blank">https://jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/p/scriptures-examined.html#col2-9</a><br />
<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="god"></a><br /><br /><b>IS JESUS THE GOD OF ABRAHAM, ISAAC AND JACOB?</b><br />
<br />
Matthew 22:32 and John 8:58 are presented as proof that Jesus claimed to be God.<br />
<br /><br />
I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living. — Matthew 22:32, <b><i>King James Version</i></b><br />
<br />
While we are not sure what in this verse is thought to present Jesus as being the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, we assume that it is being thought that Jesus was speaking of himself as being the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. If this is the thought, no, Jesus was not in this verse claiming to be the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Let us place the verse in the context of what Jesus had just stated:<br />
<br />
Matthew 22:31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,<br />
Matthew 22:32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living. — <b><i>King James Version</i></b>.<br />
<br />
Jesus is not here proclaiming himself to be the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, but he quotes what the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob said, as recorded at Exodus 3:6. He who spoke to Moses was not Jesus, but the God and Father of Jesus. (Hebrews 1:1,2) However, it is possible that Jehovah may have used Jesus in his prehuman existence as a means of communication, although no scriptures presents such a thought.<br />
<br />
John 8:58 KJV<br />
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.<br />
<br />
Here Jesus expresses his existence before Abraham; he was not claiming to be the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Jesus had just declared that he had come forth from the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (John 8:42), in agreement with his words stated at John 17:1,3, where he says that his Father is the only true Supreme Being. It also agrees with Peter’s words in Acts 3:13-26.<br />
<br />
See our studies related to EHJEH and "I am", John 8:58, etc.<br />
<a href="https://jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/p/ehjeh-and-i-am.html" target="_blank">https://jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/p/ehjeh-and-i-am.html</a><br />
<br />
The claim is made that Jesus thought he was God; in reality, it is man that claims that Jesus is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob; there is no indication anywhere in the Bible that Jesus ever thought that he was or is the God of the Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Since the scriptures always present Jesus as being sent by, speaking the words for, acting on behalf of, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (Exodus 3:14,15), the default reasoning is that Jesus is not the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. — Deuteronomy 18:15-22; Matthew 22:32; 23:39; Mark 11:9,10; 12:26; Luke 13:35; 20:37; John 3:2,17,32-35; 4:34; 5:19,30,36,43; 6:57; 7:16,28; 8:26,28,38; 10:25; 12:49,50; 14:10; 15:15; 17:8,26; 20:17; Acts 2:22,34-36; 3:13-26; 5:30; Romans 15:6; 2 Corinthians 1:3; 8:6; 11:31; Colossians 1:3,15; 2:9-12; Hebrews 1:1-3; Revelation 1:1.<br />
<br />
See my study:<br />
<a href="https://jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/2019/05/god-of-abraham.html" target="_blank">Is Jesus the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob?</a><br />
<a href="https://jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/2019/05/god-of-abraham.html">https://jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/2019/05/god-of-abraham.html</a></div><div style="text-align: left;"><br /><br />
<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="supreme"></a><b>DID JESUS CLAIM TO BE THE SUPREME BEING?</b><br />
<br />
John 8:24; 8:56-59 (Exodus 3:14); John 10:30-33 and John 14:8-9 are given as scriptures which are asserted to be instances where Jesus claimed to be God, evidently with the meaning of "God" as the Supreme Being.</div><div style="text-align: left;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: left;"><b>John 8:24</b></div><div style="text-align: left;"><b><br /></b></div><div style="text-align: left;">John 8:24 - I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for except ye believe that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.<br /><br />Here Jesus is saying that unless one believes that he is who he says he is, they will not be justified, and will thus die in their sins. Jesus does not say that he is the Supreme Being, but he claimed to be sent from Jehovah, his God and Father. -- Isaiah 61:1; Micah 5:4; John 8:12,14,16,18,23: 17:1,3.<br /><br />See our examination of the verse in our study:<br /><a href="https://jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/2016/09/i-ams.html#john8-24" target="_blank">John 8:58 and Other "I am" Statements of Jesus </a></div><div style="text-align: left;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: left;"><b>John 8:58 (Exodus 3:14)</b><br /><br /></div><div style="text-align: left;">Many falsely claim that Jesus was identifying himself as being Ehjeh of Exodus 3:14. Jesus was actually responding the question related to his age, stating his existence before Abraham. Jesus' existence before Abraham does not mean that we need to imagine and assume that Jesus was claimint to be his God, Jehovah. -- Micah 5:4.<br /><br />For several of our studies related to John 8:58<br /><a href="https://jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/p/john.html#john8-58" target="_blank">https://jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/p/john.html#john8-58</a></div><div style="text-align: left;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: left;"><b>John 10:30-33</b></div><div style="text-align: left;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: left;">
Jesus claimed that he and his God and Father, Jehovah (Micah 5:4; Ephesians 1:3) are one. Jesus was not saying that he and his God and Father are "one God," nor was he saying that he and his God and Father are one being, one substance, etc., nor was Jesus saying that he was equal to this God and Father. Jesus prayed that his followers have this same oneness with him and with his Father. Was Jesus praying that his followers become the same one Supreme Being with him and the only true Supreme Being who sent Jesus? -- John 17:1,3, 11,21-23.<br /><br /><div>There is certainly nothing written in John 10:30-33 that records Jesus as saying that he is Jehovah, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. </div><div><br /></div><div>For links to studies related to John 10:30-33.<br /><br /></div><div><a href="https://jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/p/john.html#john10-30" target="_blank">https://jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/p/john.html#john10-30</a></div></div><div style="text-align: left;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: left;"><b>John 14:8,9</b></div><div style="text-align: left;"><b><br /></b></div><div style="text-align: left;">There is definitely nothing in John 14:8,9 that presents Jesus as being the God of Abraham, Isaac and if one is a trinitarian, there is certainly nothing that presents the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as being more than one person or individual. Jesus was certainly not saying that he was his God and Father. One can certainly see the God and Father of Jesus in Jesus as Jesus came to declare his God and Father. Thus, in Jesus' work and words, one can certainly see his God and Father. Jesus was definitely not saying that everyone who saw his body of flesh was seeing his Father, for he stated to the Jewish leaders concerning his God and Father: "You have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his form." (John 5;37) Those leaders had certainly seen Jesus' flesh, thus in John 14:8,9, Jesus was speaking of seeing in the sense of recognition of whom he is, the Son of the Most High, who came to declare his God and Father. The world in general did not recognize Jesus. -- John 1:10-14; 18.</div><div style="text-align: left;"><br />
</div><div style="text-align: left;"><div style="text-align: center;">***********</div></div>
Ronald Dayhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01428695352830083280noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2081748873678351197.post-48516499640485330472023-03-05T18:46:00.002-08:002023-03-05T18:46:30.141-08:00John 8:24 - You Will Die in Your Sins<div class="separator"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjTiS8-TjNZTVuiaKSzVXr8G-CGtkhTX1v485Z14csVVbHuBz5LjZ7c2_-_2xAw2-qN5EwKtqJZUhP4gqz5j1HHkG0ErJrKG1MXo9U8WomNPhCqfqZjpZAz0mbsJ9t2JYaJIzA7BkDYXgV50MawvtJWy1w6O8lCibQcvIGzwVUTmy5MNIpx-3Lab9Sb8w/s760/tuxpi.com.1678070543.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em; text-align: center;"><img border="0" data-original-height="760" data-original-width="760" height="200" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjTiS8-TjNZTVuiaKSzVXr8G-CGtkhTX1v485Z14csVVbHuBz5LjZ7c2_-_2xAw2-qN5EwKtqJZUhP4gqz5j1HHkG0ErJrKG1MXo9U8WomNPhCqfqZjpZAz0mbsJ9t2JYaJIzA7BkDYXgV50MawvtJWy1w6O8lCibQcvIGzwVUTmy5MNIpx-3Lab9Sb8w/w200-h200/tuxpi.com.1678070543.jpg" width="200" /></a></div>It is often claimed that if one does not accept the trinity, that the Bible says that he will die in his sins.<br /><div><br /></div><div>Actually, Jesus did say to the Jewish religious leaders who opposed him:</div><div><br /></div>
<div>
John 8:21 - Jesus said therefore again to them, "I am going away, and you will seek me, and will die in your sins. Where I go, you can't come."</div><div><br /></div>
<div>
John 8:24 - I said therefore to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am he, you will die in your sins."</div>
<div><br /></div><div>
Jesus was certainly declaring that if they did not accept him as who he claimed to be, they would die in their sins. Who was he claiming to be? In the context, he was claiming to have been sent by his Father, and he differentiates himself from his God and Father. (John 8:18) Jesus identified his Father as being the only true God who had sent him. (John 17:1,3) This means that he was claiming to be the one whom the Lord Jehovah sent, as recorded in Isaiah 61:1, hence, the promised Messiah. Nothing in any of this means that he was claiming to be his Father, nor that he was a person of the only true God who sent him.</div><div><br /></div>
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Why do non-believers die in their sins? As Paul later explains, all mankind has been made sinners as a result of Adam's sin; all are condemned in one man, so that only one man would be needed to deliver mankind out of the condemnation in Adam. (Romans 5:12-19; 1 Corinthians 15:21,22; 1 Timothy 2:5,6) In this age, the only way one can be reckoned as justified, and thus, without sin, is through faith in Jesus, the one whom the only true God sent, based on the sacrifice he gave for sin. (John 14:6; 17:1,3; Acts 4:12; Romans 3:21-26; 4:5; 5:1,9,12-19; 1 Corinthians 15:21,22; Hebrews 10:10) All others remain condemned in Adam, and will have to face judgment in the last day. -- Matthew 10:15; 11:22-24; 12:36; Mark 6:11; John 3:18,36; 12:47,48; 1 John 2:2; 2 Peter 2:9.</div><div><br /></div><div>To not accept Jesus as being the promised one "from above" (John 8:23) -- the one sent by the only true God (Deuteronomy 18:15-19; John 6:29; 8:15,42; 10:36;17:1,3; 16:27; Acts 3:13-26; Galatians 4:4; 1 John 4:9,10) -- would mean that such a person is not reckoned as justified in the blood of Christ, and thus that such a person is counted as remaining in his sins, remaining under the wrath of God in the condemnation of death through Adam of which he has already been condemned. -- John 3:18,36; Romans 5:12-19; 1 Corinthians 15:21,22.</div><div><br /></div><div>There is nothing, however, in John 8:24, that means that Jesus was saying that if one does not accept the triune God and himself as being a person of that triune God, they one would die in their sins. In John 8:24 all Jesus was saying is he was the one sent by his Father from above as the light of the world (John 8:12) -- the Son of God -- the Messiah. (John 8:12,14,16,18,23) Unless one believes in him as the one he claimed to be one will not be justified and will die in his sins, and will thus be raised in the resurrection of the unjust rather than the resurrection of the just. -- Acts 24:15.<br /><br />Please note that the phrase often transliterated as EGO EIMI in John 8:12 is not referring to eternal existence from eternal past to eternal future, nor is there any thought that Jesus used EGO EIMI as the name EHJEH, as found in Exodus 3:14. This verse is referring to Jesus' claims regarding himself, much of which is related to while he in days of his flesh, while was in the world that did not recognize him. (John 1:10; 9:5; Hebrews 5:7) There is definitely nothing in John 8:24 that presents the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as being more than one person, or that Jesus is a person of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.</div>
<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><br /></div><br />Ronald Dayhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01428695352830083280noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2081748873678351197.post-25141958966715460952023-02-21T16:17:00.002-08:002023-02-22T11:18:25.688-08:001x1x1 and the Trinity Doctrine<p></p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgnLMkElELGfCm-6kwThmY9gB5lJ63ZLdUlmwpGP9EmZgMEbPF7EDo1diIS7UKZUZQe8_uKTYDu0PD9IqBlOq7f_As6-Er9xokWFd6NI07z7CPnHeKrAdieFgpboUzhyh2x-v3GCUcBkkC5VXXSaG1OYFapNBPKOrxOmWjzNt1RnlUeCvjZ88X2RS8FfQ/s1329/250608931_10209040684649972_3751560352143654003_n.jpg" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1329" data-original-width="640" height="320" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgnLMkElELGfCm-6kwThmY9gB5lJ63ZLdUlmwpGP9EmZgMEbPF7EDo1diIS7UKZUZQe8_uKTYDu0PD9IqBlOq7f_As6-Er9xokWFd6NI07z7CPnHeKrAdieFgpboUzhyh2x-v3GCUcBkkC5VXXSaG1OYFapNBPKOrxOmWjzNt1RnlUeCvjZ88X2RS8FfQ/s320/250608931_10209040684649972_3751560352143654003_n.jpg" width="154" /></a></div>The image presented is evidently directed to Muslims. This site is not owned by a Muslim, but by a Christian who does not believe in adding the trinity doctrine to the Bible.<br /><br />Nevertheless, many professed Christians have accepted the added-on trinity doctrine, and under the guise of orthodoxy, they claim that the trinity doctrine is the central essential doctrine of Christianity, despite the fact that no such concept is anywhere to be found in the Holy Bible. T<br /><br />Nevertheless, trinitarians have been disclaiming that 1+1+1=1 applies to their added-on trinitarian concept, and would have one believe that the trinity is actually represented as 1x1x1=1.<p></p><p>Does 1x1x1-1 actually represent what is claimed for the trinity doctrine? And even if it did, does this mean that the trinity doctrine is true?</p><p>We first wish to note that while we believe the trinity doctrine is illogical, that is not the basic reason for rejecting that doctrine. The Christian who believes in the Bible should reject that doctrine because no such concept is even once found anywhere in the "faith once delivered to the saints". The concept has to be formulated beyond what is actually found in the Bible and then many supporting extra-Biblical assumptions have also to be formulated to allow one to "see" the triune God concept in the Bible. </p><p>The Bible consistently presents the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as being only one person. The Bible never once presents the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as being more than one person.</p><p>The trinitarian often states that Jesus is the God of the Old Testament. Thus they would claim that Jehovah of the Old Testament is Jesus. Since this does not harmonize with many scriptures in the Old Testament they have to call upon their imagined assumption that Jehovah is more than one person, and thus they would imagine, assume, add to and read into many of the scriptures, that Jehovah is being presented as being only one person who is the God and Father of the Jesus, but that in most other places it is referring only one person who is the Son of the God and Father of Jesus. The influence of indoctrination, however, often blinds the trinitarian to the fact that he is actually adding all these assumptions to the Bible in order to accommodate a concept that is not once presented in the Bible. </p><p>The default scriptural reasoning should be that Jehovah is only one person who is the God and Father of the Messiah. -- Isaiah 61:1,2; Micah 5:4; John 17:1,3; Ephesians 1:3.</p><p>Nevertheless, we believe the mathematical formula of 1x1x1=1 to be a mathematical deception that does not actually apply to what is claimed for the trinity doctrine.</p><p>However, the terminology that trinitarians use in presenting their triune God concept would not be described as multiplication, it would be with an addition equation 1 person + 1 person + 1 person = 1 God. Mathematically this would make each person 1/3 of God, not each wholly and fully the one God as is claimed by the trinitarians. Thus, the trinitarian has come up with the mathematical deception that 1 person x 1 person x 1 person = 1 God. </p><p>Some scriptures are presented in the image.<br /><br />Although 1 John 5:7 as it reads in the Masoretic Text is probably not what John wrote, still there is nothing even in the Textus Receptus of this verse that presents any concept that the "one God" of whom are all (1 Corinthians 8:6) is more than one person. See <a href="https://jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/p/1-john.html#1john5-7" target="_blank">our links to studies related to 1 John 5:7</a>.<br /><br />Likewise, in Matthew 28:18-20, we find nothing about God being three persons. <br /><br />The "one God" from whom are all, being the source of all, has certainly given to his Son all authority (as well as all power). This does not mean that we need to imagine and assume that God's Son became God Almighty because God Almighty gave to him this authority and power. -- 1 Corinthians 15:27; Ephesians 1:3,17-23. See our study: <a href="https://jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/2019/09/mat28-18.html" target="_blank">"All Power"</a>.<br /><br />The name, probably referring to authority or purpose, is distributed in three applications in Matthew 28:19. We definitely find nothing in Matthew 28:19 that presents the God of Abraham, Isaac as being more than one person, or as three persons etc. See our <a href="https://jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/p/matthew.html#mat28-19" target="_blank">links to studies related to Matthew 28:19</a>.<br /><br />Jesus, standing in the might of his God (Isaiah 11:1-3; Micah 5:4), certainly has received from his God the power to be present in<a href="https://jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/2020/06/mat28-20.html" target="_blank"> more than one place at the same time</a>.<br /><br /></p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhQtjTjjsMv1X6_S3kizvFedv07E1YRRUGAZ5Ellh8Ck-mmF6fJJQuvo9pr9gDWMNMvT9WGZQqa9Fv5ccbxjuxnR0sGMI_Q_MChDfMkeZy66IO4rrk4JCL2fJw6dFfjBQBivb9OHzRq-ZZ0rTa9EFpsTj-i585aHVGlcseNBp3wt0HZxzmPQLj2MmM5SQ/s1799/tuxpi.com.1677024862.jpg" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1799" data-original-width="1799" height="320" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhQtjTjjsMv1X6_S3kizvFedv07E1YRRUGAZ5Ellh8Ck-mmF6fJJQuvo9pr9gDWMNMvT9WGZQqa9Fv5ccbxjuxnR0sGMI_Q_MChDfMkeZy66IO4rrk4JCL2fJw6dFfjBQBivb9OHzRq-ZZ0rTa9EFpsTj-i585aHVGlcseNBp3wt0HZxzmPQLj2MmM5SQ/s320/tuxpi.com.1677024862.jpg" width="320" /></a></div><br /><p><br /></p>Ronald Dayhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01428695352830083280noreply@blogger.com0