The claim is made that the Law given to Moses was that which the Lord JESUS CHRIST wrote with HIS own finger saying: “I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. You shall have no other gods before Me." Exodus 20:2,3
Actually, there is no form of the Hebrew words for "Lord" in Exodus 20:2,3. Many translations falsely present the Holy Name as being "the LORD," but that is not correct.
See:
The Holy Name of God
Exodus 20:2-3 - I am Jehovah your God, who has brought you out from the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.[3] You shall not have any other gods before Me. -- Green's Literal.
Evidently, the thought is that "Jehovah" who spoke through the prophet Moses is the Lord Jesus Christ. If so, this would mean the Lord Jesus Christ is He who spoke through the prophet Moses. and is thus the one person who is God in Hebrews 1:1, and that the Lord Jesus Christ now speaks through the son of the Lord Jesus Christ, as spoken of in Hebrews 1:2.
Actually, He who spoke through the prophet Moses is the same one person who is the "one God" in 1 Corinthians 8:6, and the Lord Jesus Christ is the Son of that one person. Jehovah, the "one God" of 1 Corinthians 8:6 now speaks through Jehovah's Son, and Jehovah's Son is not Jehovah, but the Lord Jesus Christ, the one whom Jehovah has anointed and made "Lord". -- Isaiah 61:1; Acts 2:36.
This site's purpose is to respond to claims that Jesus is Jehovah/Yahweh by pointing out what the scriptures do say versus what people often imagine and assume.
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Thursday, October 10, 2019
Tuesday, October 8, 2019
The "Living God" Scriptures
Below are scriptures that contain the expression "Living God" in the American Standard Version of the Bible:
Deuteronomy 5:26 - For who is there of all flesh, that hath heard the voice of the living God speaking out of the midst of the fire, as we have, and lived?
Regardless of the instrument God used, the living God spoken of here is the same one person who is God who spoke through the prophets of old as recorded in Hebrews 1:1,2.
Joshua 3:10 - And Joshua said, Hereby ye shall know that the living God is among you, and that he will without fail drive out from before you the Canaanite, and the Hittite, and the Hivite, and the Perizzite, and the Girgashite, and the Amorite, and the Jebusite.
Joshua was not claiming that the "living God" had become a man of flesh and blood in order to dwell among the children of Israel, nor is there any reference in this verse to the one identified in the New Testament as the Son of the living God."
1 Samuel 17:26 - And David spake to the men that stood by him, saying, What shall be done to the man that killeth this Philistine, and taketh away the reproach from Israel? for who is this uncircumcised Philistine, that he should defy the armies of the living God?
1 Samuel 17:36 - Thy servant smote both the lion and the bear: and this uncircumcised Philistine shall be as one of them, seeing he hath defied the armies of the living God.
2 Kings 19:4 - It may be Jehovah thy God will hear all the words of Rabshakeh, whom the king of Assyria his master hath sent to defy the living God, and will rebuke the words which Jehovah thy God hath heard: wherefore lift up thy prayer for the remnant that is left.
2 Kings 19:16 - Incline thine ear, O Jehovah, and hear; open thine eyes, O Jehovah, and see; and hear the words of Sennacherib, wherewith he hath sent him to defy the living God.
Psalms 42:2 - My soul thirsteth for God, for the living God: When shall I come and appear before God?
David was not speaking of thirsting for the Messiah, although later it is revealed that the only way to be reconciled to God is through the Messiah. -- John 14:6; Acts 4:12; Romans 5:10,12-19; 1 Corinthians 15:21,22; 2 Corinthians 5:18,19; 1 Timothy 2:5,6; Hebrews 2:9; 1 John 2:2.
Psalms 84:2 - My soul longeth, yea, even fainteth for the courts of Jehovah; My heart and my flesh cry out unto the living God.
The Psalmist here refers Jehovah, the God of the Messiah (Micah 5:4), as the living God. Jesus, however, is said to have cried out to his God who was able to save him from death. (Hebrews 5:7) Thus, the one whom the living God anointed and sent is distinguished from being the anointed one who was sent. -- Isaiah 61:1,2; John 17:1,3.
Isaiah 37:4 - It may be Jehovah thy God will hear the words of Rabshakeh, whom the king of Assyria his master hath sent to defy the living God, and will rebuke the words which Jehovah thy God hath heard: wherefore lift up thy prayer for the remnant that is left.
Isaiah 37:17 - Incline thine ear, O Jehovah, and hear; open thine eyes, O Jehovah, and see; and hear all the words of Sennacherib, who hath sent to defy the living God.
Jeremiah 10:10 - But Jehovah is the true God; he is the living God, and an everlasting King: at his wrath the earth trembleth, and the nations are not able to abide his indignation.
Jesus identified the "living God" -- "the true God" -- here as being his Father who had sent him. -- John 17:1,3.
Jeremiah 23:36 - And the burden of Jehovah shall ye mention no more: for every man's own word shall be his burden; for ye have perverted the words of the living God, of Jehovah of hosts our God.
Daniel 6:20 - And when he came near unto the den to Daniel, he cried with a lamentable voice; the king spake and said to Daniel, O Daniel, servant of the living God, is thy God, whom thou servest continually, able to deliver thee from the lions?
Daniel 6:26 - I make a decree, that in all the dominion of my kingdom men tremble and fear before the God of Daniel; for he is the living God, and stedfast for ever, And his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed; and his dominion shall be even unto the end.
Hosea 1:10 - Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass that, in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, it shall be said unto them, [Ye are] the sons of the living God.
This prophecy was fulfilled in the Messiah, for those who recognized and accepted him became the sons of the living God. While this was initially only offered to the natural Israel, later the door was open for Gentile believers to become sons of the living God. -- John 1:12; Romans 1:16; 10:12; Galatians 3:26.28.
Matthew 16:16 - And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Peter definitely identified Jesus as the Christ, the Son of the living God, and not as being the living God.
Matthew 26:63 - But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou art the Christ, the Son of God.
Here the high priest did ask Jesus if he was living God, but rather if he was the Christ, the Son of [living] God.
Acts 14:15 - and saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and bring you good tidings, that ye should turn from these vain things unto a living God, who made the heaven and the earth and the sea, and all that in them is.
Romans 9:26 - And it shall be, [that] in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, There shall they be called sons of the living God.
2 Corinthians 3:3 - being made manifest that ye are an epistle of Christ, ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in tables [that are] hearts of flesh.
2 Corinthians 6:16 - And what agreement hath a temple of God with idols? for we are a temple of the living God; even as God said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
1 Timothy 3:15 - but if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how men ought to behave themselves in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.
1 Timothy 4:10 - For to this end we labor and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of them that believe.
2 Timothy 3:12 - Yea, and all that would live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
Hebrews 3:12 - Take heed, brethren, lest haply there shall be in any one of you an evil heart of unbelief, in falling away from the living God.
Hebrews 9:14 - how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish unto God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
Hebrews 10:31 - It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Hebrews 12:22 - but ye are come unto mount Zion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable hosts of angels.
Revelation 7:2 - And I saw another angel ascend from the sunrising, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a great voice to the four angels to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea.
One should note that the Living God is always presented as being one person, not more than one person. The term, "living God" is never applied to Jesus in the Bible. Jesus is differentiated from being the "Living God" in Matthew 16:16.
Wednesday, September 4, 2019
Matthew 28:18 - Jesus and All Power
Matthew 28:18 – Jesus came to them and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to me in heaven and on earth.”Matthew 28:18 is often quoted as proof that Jesus is Jehovah by advocates of both the trinity and oneness doctrines. Some translations read “all power” instead of “all authority”; the Greek word, however, refers to “all authority”. It is from the standpoint, however, of those who cite this scripture in an effort to support the idea that Jesus is the Almighty that we in this study are examining what this would mean.
One of the “oneness” believers states concerning this that if Jesus has “all power” then nobody else can have any. This, of course, is absurd. Taken as the thought is given, it would deny that anyone else can have any power at all! You have no power to stand, walk, talk, write a letter, or perform your any work to make a living. And, according to this statement, Satan no longer has any power! The angels no longer have any power! The demons no longer have any power! The God and Father of Jesus no longer has any power! Human rulers no longer have any power to rule! If taken to the extreme, it would mean that no living thing has any power to walk, to eat, to work, to think, breath, etc. We highly doubt, however, that this is what the writer had in mind in stating that “all power” given to Jesus means that no one else had any, but we are just giving the logical conclusions that can be drawn from such a statement. The oneness writer stated this, we are sure, in an effort to support the claim that in some vague way Jesus is or became the Father (the only true God — John 17:1,3), an idea that we do not find anywhere in the entire Bible. Matthew 28:18 shows that this "authority" was given to Jesus from someone else who is not Jesus.
The idea that Jesus was claiming no one else has any power at all has to be assumed and added to what Jesus said. Paul does not so assume, for he says that it is “evident” that the One who subjected all things to Jesus is excepted from the “all” that has been subjected to Jesus. (1 Corinthians 15:27) Thus the God and Father of Jesus did not, has not, nor will he ever, give to Jesus the power and the glory that only belongs to the God and Father of Jesus, the being of the only Most High God Almighty. (Genesis 14:22; 17:1; Exodus 6:3; Isaiah 42:8) When Jesus stated, however, that all power has been given to him, he is not saying that no one else has any power, but that the power that has been given to him, as the one sitting next to the Most High, exceeds the power that has been given by the Jehovah (whom Jesus sits at the right hand of — Psalm 110:1) to anyone else, so that all things are made subject to him. In this relationship, it is evident that all the power given to Jesus by Jehovah does not include the being of Jehovah, on whose right hand Jesus has been made to sit. — Ephesians 2:20-22.
Often trinitarians as well as oneness believers will present a long list of scriptures which they claim supports or proves the trinity or oneness doctrines, and they will often include Matthew 28:18 in that list. Usually no real explanantion is made of the scriptures, but rather the trinity doctrine or the oneness doctrine is presumed upon the scriptures.
Many seem to be absorbed with the expression “all power” in Matthew 28:18, and thus appear to overlook the word “given”; some trinitarians try to explain that the power given here is not the eternal power of the (alleged) second person of the (alleged) trinity, but a special power given from the (alleged) first person of the (alleged) trinity to the (alleged) second person of the (alleged) trinity. If this is so, then there is nothing in this verse that offers any proof of the trinity. Actually, there is nothing in the scriptures at all about a triune God, or that Jesus is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, or that Jesus is a person, mode, etc., of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is always presented as being one person, and is never presented as being more than one person.
We also need to examine the word that is render “all” regarding “all” power that is given to Jesus, which is transliterated as “pasa”. It is a form of the Greek “Pas” (meaning: all, every, whole, etc.), and all forms of this word look to context as well common evidence for what is included or excluded. As in English, "all" is always limited to the "all" being referred to. As shown above, it is evident that the God and Father of Jesus is excluded, as Paul states in 1 Corinthians 15:27. A Biblical study of this word all through the New Testament shows that, even when our translators add the word “things” to it, it rarely refers to absolutely “all” things in the whole universe, which would include the Most High Himself. It is always qualified by the context and common evidence. Although regarding Matthew 28:18, we can see from other scriptures that the “all power” that has been given to Jesus does include the subjection of all power in the whole created universe, but it does not include the Supreme Power of the Creator Himself.
http://studylight.org/lex/grk/view.cgi?number=3956
Trinitarians, likewise, like to refer to Matthew 28:18 as proof that Jesus is God, but, as yet, we have not seen any genuine explanation as to how this is claimed to support their position. Much that we have stated above also applies to the trinitarian arguments that use this scripture to support their doctrine.
It is often listed as proof that Jesus is alleged to be “omnipotent“. They seem to want Jesus to say: “Since I am the Most High, I have all power in heaven and earth”, while ignoring that this power is given to Jesus from someone who is not Jesus. Some claim that the power is given from the Father to the Son, but, if this power is meant to prove that Jesus is God, or omnipotent, then the scripture would mean that before being given all this power, the Son was not God, and was not omnipotent (as many alleged Jesus to be), until this power was given to him. If they say that this power was given to Jesus as a man, and yet still use this scripture as proof that Jesus is God, then, in effect, they would be saying the human being Jesus became the God being. It would declare the flesh of Jesus as being the alleged “God nature” that they claim Jesus has. It would declare that flesh of Jesus is with the glory that higher than the angels. The word man, in the Bible, when applied to humanity, refers to a glory that is a little lower than the angels (Psalm 8:5,6; Hebrews 2:7-9), to a glory that has fleshly, earthly, substance, not celestial, spiritual substance. -- 1 Corinthians 15:39-41.
In actuality, Jesus, in saying his words in Matthew 28:18, offers proof that Jesus is not his God, never has been his God, and never will be his God. Jesus is, and always will be, the Son of the Most High. He will never be the Most High of whom he is the son. — Genesis 14:22; Psalm 7:17; 83:18; 92:1; Luke 1:32; John 13:16.
While both trinitarian and “oneness” believers continue to present long lists of scriptures alleged to prove that Jesus is Jehovah, yet in reality, one has to assume, add to, and read that thought into all of the scriptures presented.
Search terms: All-Powerful, Almighty, Deity, Dual Natures, Hypostatic Union, Matthew, Oneness, Scriptures, trinity, christology, is jesus god, Jesus is God, Jesus is Jehovah, Jesus is not Jehovah, Jesus is not Yahweh, Jesus is Yahweh, Matthew 28:18, omnipotent, Omniscience, trinity, trinity doctrine, Yahweh is the only true God
Ronald R. Day, Sr. -- Restoration Light Bible Study Services (ResLight)
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Saturday, July 13, 2019
Romans 8:11 – Spirit Of Him Who Raised Up Jesus
But if the Spirit of him who raised up Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised up Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you. — Romans 8:11.
The above scripture is often presented with the thought that it was “the Spirit” here who raised Jesus from the dead. Usually, this scripture is presented with the thought that it was the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit — all three — that raised Jesus from the dead.
Actually, many misread this verse as though it says that God’s spirit raised up Jesus from the dead; although we do believe it possible that the only true God (John 17:1,3) did indeed use his Holy Spirit in raising Jesus up from the dead, that is not what is said in this scripture. “Him who raised up Jesus” refers to the God and Father of Jesus, not back to “Spirit”. “Spirit” is depicted as belonging to the One who raised Jesus up from the dead.
Throughout Romans 8, "God" refers only to the Father of Jesus and is distinguished from Jesus, especially in Romans 8:3,34,39.
The Bible plainly tells us that it was the God and Father of Jesus, the only true God [Supreme Being] (John 17:1,3) that raised Jesus from the dead. — Acts 2:24,32,26; 3:15; 4:10; 10:40; 13:30,33,37; 17:31; Romans 4:24; 10:9; 1 Corinthians 6:14; 15:15; Galatians 1:1; Colossians 2:11,12; 1 Thessalonians 1:9,10; 1 Peter 1:21; 3:18.
ADDENDUM:
Some still insist that Romans 8:11 says the spirit raised Jesus from the dead. In Romans 8:11, him/he/his continuously refers to the God and Father of Jesus, and God's Spirit is distinguished from God, for the spirit belongs to him. Paul is speaking of God's spirit dwelling in the believer: "if the Spirit ... dwell in you".
He did NOT say that the Spirit raised Jesus from the dead, but he spoke of the Father as "him who raised Jesus up from the dead," and of the spirit that belongs to the God and Father of Jesus. The intervening phrase "Him that raised up Jesus from the dead" is the God and Father of Jesus. It is only by distorting what Paul wrote and then adding all the imaginative assumptions related to the triune dogma into what Paul said that one could claim that the any third person of an alleged triune God raised Jesus from the dead.
Paul did not say in this verse that the spirit of God is a person and that it was this spirit person that raised Jesus from the dead, nor did he or any Bible writer ever once present God's Holy Spirit as being a person of any alleged triune God. As yet we found no scripture that speaks of God's spirit as raising Jesus from the dead, but as we stated above, we believe it to be highly possible that God did use his Spirit in raising Jesus from the dead.
Regardless, even if Paul had said that God raised Jesus by means of His spirit, this does not give any reason to imagine, assume, add to, and read the trinitarian dogma into such a statement.
Related studies:
Did Jesus Raise Himself from the Dead?
Jesus’ Appearances in the Locked Room
Jesus Died a Human Being – Raised a Spirit Being
Thursday, July 11, 2019
Luke 8:38,39 -- Great :Proof that Jesus is God?
Luke 8:38,39 is sometimes referred to as proof that Jesus is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
Luke 8:38 - But the man from whom the demons had gone out begged him that he might go with him, but Jesus sent him away, saying,
Luke 8:39 - "Return to your house, and declare what great things God has done for you." He went his way, proclaiming throughout the whole city what great things Jesus had done for him.
According to one author the man from whom Jesus expelled the demons "credited the exorcism to Jesus, although he was told to credit it to God, and he was doing exactly what he was told to do. It seems to me that this man viewed Jesus as God."
https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/219112/proof-jesus-deity-using-nwt-one-simple-scripture
Another claims Luke 8:39 is great proof that Jesus is God.
In reality, there is absolutely nothing at all in Luke 8:39, or anywhere else in the Bible, that gives us any reason to imagine and assume that Jesus IS the Supreme Being. Jesus plainly and distinctly identified his God and Father as being the only true Supreme Being, and by saying that the only true Supreme had sent him, Jesus directly denied being the only true Supreme Being. (John 17:1,3) Who sent Jesus? Prophetically, the Messiah says, "Jehovah ... has sent me." (Isaiah 61:1) In Isaiah 61:1, "The Lord Jehovah" is presented as being only one person, not more than one person, and Jehovah anoints and sends another person who is not Himself.
Additionally, the one who was anointed and sent is never once spoken of in the Bible as being a person of Jehovah, the only true God. Nevertheless, Isaiah 61:1 agrees with John 17:1,3, where Jesus identifies his God and Father as being the "only true God". the only true Supreme Being. The "one God" of the Old Testament is the God and Father pf our Lord Jesus (1 Corinthians 8:6; Ephesians 1:3). That one person who spoke through his prophet of Isaiah is identified as one person in Hebrews 1:1,2, and Jesus is distinguished from being that one person.
In Luke 11:20, Jesus stated, "I by the finger of God cast out demons." (World English) Therein, he speaks of "God" as being, not himself, but another, and he speaks of the unipersonal God as being the source of the power by which he casted out demons.
Often in the scriptures we read of various servants of God who performed great acts on behalf of God. Nevertheless, at the same time the scriptures may refer to these acts as being performed by Jehovah himself. Regarding this, let us look at a set of scriptures pertaining to Moses and Jehovah: Exodus 12:51 - It happened the same day,
that Yahweh brought the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt by their hosts. Jehovah alone did lead him [Israel/Jacob - verse 9], There was no foreign god with him. -- Deuteronomy 32:12.
Exodus 15:22: Moses led Israel onward from the Red Sea, and they went out into the wilderness of Shur; and they went three days in the wilderness, and found no water.
Does this mean that since both Moses and Jehovah both delivered the Isralites out of Egypt, that this must mean that Moses is Jehova? No one seriously claims that Moses is Jehovah, yet according to the reasoning of those who wish to scriptures such as Luke 8:38,49 to prove that Jesus is Jehovah, it would seem that these scriptures should definitely prove that Moses is Jehovah. Of course, in reality, Jehovah often takes the credit for what his servants do in his name. Just because one scripture says Jehovah did this or that, and another scripture says that Moses, Gideon, Jesus, or another of God;s servants did the same, does not mean that any of these are Jehovah.
Likewise regarding the Messiah whom Jehovah sent.
So how is it that it can be said that both Moses and Jehovah delivered Israel? Taking the Bible as a whole we learn:
Psalm 77:20: You [Jehovah] led your people like a flock, By the hand of Moses and Aaron.
Hosea 12:13: By a prophet Jehovah brought Israel up out of Egypt, And by a prophet he was preserved.
In this manner it could be said that both Jehovah and Moses brought Israel out of Egypt; it is likewise with the greater Moses, Jesus. -- Deuteronomy 18:15-19.
How well this illustrates also how Jehovah, speaks and performs works by means of his Son, Jesus (John 1:17; 3:34; 5:36; 10:25,32; 14:10; Ephesians 3:9, KJV; Titus 3:6), and delivers the world from sin and death through Jesus, the one like Moses who is also sent by Jehovah.
The unipersonal Most High Jehovah (Luke 1:32,35), having sent His Messiah, does all things through, by means of, Jesus, his son, the one whom He has ordained, appointed and anointed, and our salvation is from the unipersonal God, through the son of the unipersonal God, all to the glorification of the unipersonal God. -- Psalm 2:6; 45:7; Isaiah 61:1; Matthew 11:27; 28:18; Luke 10:22; John 1:17; 3:35; 13:3; 16:15; Acts 4:27; Romans 3:24; 1 Corinthians 8:6; 15:27; 2 Corinthians 5:18; Ephesians 1:3,17,20-22; Philippians 2:11; Colossians 1:3,13,20; Hebrews 1:1,2; 1 Peter 4:11.
Now, did the man from Jesus expelled the demons think that Jesus himself was the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob? Those demons recognized Jesus, not as the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, but as the Son of the Most High God. (Luke 8:28) The most logical reasoning is that this man thought that God had performed this miracle through Jesus, not that Jesus himself is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
We should definitely note in Luke 8 "God" is always presented as being one person, and not even once as being more than one person.
Luke 8:38 - But the man from whom the demons had gone out begged him that he might go with him, but Jesus sent him away, saying,
Luke 8:39 - "Return to your house, and declare what great things God has done for you." He went his way, proclaiming throughout the whole city what great things Jesus had done for him.
According to one author the man from whom Jesus expelled the demons "credited the exorcism to Jesus, although he was told to credit it to God, and he was doing exactly what he was told to do. It seems to me that this man viewed Jesus as God."
https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/219112/proof-jesus-deity-using-nwt-one-simple-scripture
Another claims Luke 8:39 is great proof that Jesus is God.
In reality, there is absolutely nothing at all in Luke 8:39, or anywhere else in the Bible, that gives us any reason to imagine and assume that Jesus IS the Supreme Being. Jesus plainly and distinctly identified his God and Father as being the only true Supreme Being, and by saying that the only true Supreme had sent him, Jesus directly denied being the only true Supreme Being. (John 17:1,3) Who sent Jesus? Prophetically, the Messiah says, "Jehovah ... has sent me." (Isaiah 61:1) In Isaiah 61:1, "The Lord Jehovah" is presented as being only one person, not more than one person, and Jehovah anoints and sends another person who is not Himself.
Additionally, the one who was anointed and sent is never once spoken of in the Bible as being a person of Jehovah, the only true God. Nevertheless, Isaiah 61:1 agrees with John 17:1,3, where Jesus identifies his God and Father as being the "only true God". the only true Supreme Being. The "one God" of the Old Testament is the God and Father pf our Lord Jesus (1 Corinthians 8:6; Ephesians 1:3). That one person who spoke through his prophet of Isaiah is identified as one person in Hebrews 1:1,2, and Jesus is distinguished from being that one person.
In Luke 11:20, Jesus stated, "I by the finger of God cast out demons." (World English) Therein, he speaks of "God" as being, not himself, but another, and he speaks of the unipersonal God as being the source of the power by which he casted out demons.
Often in the scriptures we read of various servants of God who performed great acts on behalf of God. Nevertheless, at the same time the scriptures may refer to these acts as being performed by Jehovah himself. Regarding this, let us look at a set of scriptures pertaining to Moses and Jehovah: Exodus 12:51 - It happened the same day,
that Yahweh brought the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt by their hosts. Jehovah alone did lead him [Israel/Jacob - verse 9], There was no foreign god with him. -- Deuteronomy 32:12.
Exodus 15:22: Moses led Israel onward from the Red Sea, and they went out into the wilderness of Shur; and they went three days in the wilderness, and found no water.
Does this mean that since both Moses and Jehovah both delivered the Isralites out of Egypt, that this must mean that Moses is Jehova? No one seriously claims that Moses is Jehovah, yet according to the reasoning of those who wish to scriptures such as Luke 8:38,49 to prove that Jesus is Jehovah, it would seem that these scriptures should definitely prove that Moses is Jehovah. Of course, in reality, Jehovah often takes the credit for what his servants do in his name. Just because one scripture says Jehovah did this or that, and another scripture says that Moses, Gideon, Jesus, or another of God;s servants did the same, does not mean that any of these are Jehovah.
Likewise regarding the Messiah whom Jehovah sent.
So how is it that it can be said that both Moses and Jehovah delivered Israel? Taking the Bible as a whole we learn:
Psalm 77:20: You [Jehovah] led your people like a flock, By the hand of Moses and Aaron.
Hosea 12:13: By a prophet Jehovah brought Israel up out of Egypt, And by a prophet he was preserved.
In this manner it could be said that both Jehovah and Moses brought Israel out of Egypt; it is likewise with the greater Moses, Jesus. -- Deuteronomy 18:15-19.
How well this illustrates also how Jehovah, speaks and performs works by means of his Son, Jesus (John 1:17; 3:34; 5:36; 10:25,32; 14:10; Ephesians 3:9, KJV; Titus 3:6), and delivers the world from sin and death through Jesus, the one like Moses who is also sent by Jehovah.
The unipersonal Most High Jehovah (Luke 1:32,35), having sent His Messiah, does all things through, by means of, Jesus, his son, the one whom He has ordained, appointed and anointed, and our salvation is from the unipersonal God, through the son of the unipersonal God, all to the glorification of the unipersonal God. -- Psalm 2:6; 45:7; Isaiah 61:1; Matthew 11:27; 28:18; Luke 10:22; John 1:17; 3:35; 13:3; 16:15; Acts 4:27; Romans 3:24; 1 Corinthians 8:6; 15:27; 2 Corinthians 5:18; Ephesians 1:3,17,20-22; Philippians 2:11; Colossians 1:3,13,20; Hebrews 1:1,2; 1 Peter 4:11.
Now, did the man from Jesus expelled the demons think that Jesus himself was the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob? Those demons recognized Jesus, not as the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, but as the Son of the Most High God. (Luke 8:28) The most logical reasoning is that this man thought that God had performed this miracle through Jesus, not that Jesus himself is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
We should definitely note in Luke 8 "God" is always presented as being one person, and not even once as being more than one person.
Saturday, June 15, 2019
Sunday, June 9, 2019
Saturday, May 25, 2019
Luke 1:68; 7:16 – God Visited His People
{Luke 1:68} “Blessed be Jehovah, the God of Israel, for he has looked upon and prepared deliverance for his people;
{Luke 1:69} and has raised up a horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David. — Restoration Light Improved Version.{Luke 7:16} Fear took hold of all, and they glorified God, saying, “A great prophet has arisen among us!” and, “God has looked upon his people!” — Restoration Light Improved Version.
Many refer to the above scriptures and claim that Jehovah (Yahweh) God himself became flesh as Christ so as to deliver Israel. Such have to explain away the fact that Luke (in Luke 1:68,69) distinguishes Jehovah, the God of Israel, from Jesus, since it is Jehovah of verse 68 who raises up “a horn of salvation” in verse 69. It is generally conceded that this “horn of salvation” in verse 69 is Jesus. Since it is Jehovah of verse 68 who raises up this “horn” spoken of in verse 69, the default conclusion should be that “Jehovah” is not Jesus. — Deuteronomy 18:15-19; Acts 3:13-26.
Of course, our trinitarian neighbors have created an array of assumptions which they add to, and read into, the above verses, so as to make these verses seem to be in harmony with their assumed trinitarian philosophy. Likewise with the modalists (or oneness believers).
Most translations read that Jehovah (although they present God's Holy Name as "the Lord") “visited” his people, which, when placed in the context of trinitarian or oneness claims that Jesus is Jehovah, could seem to make it appear that Jehovah did indeed become flesh in order to redeem Israel. However, if one looks up the meaning of the Greek word, it means to look upon, in the sense of giving attention to. The Greek word rendered “visited” is borrowed from the Hebraic usage in the Old Testament, wherein forms of the Hebrew word transliterated as “Paqad” are used. For various usages/applicatons of the Hebrew word "paqad":
Most translations read that Jehovah (although they present God's Holy Name as "the Lord") “visited” his people, which, when placed in the context of trinitarian or oneness claims that Jesus is Jehovah, could seem to make it appear that Jehovah did indeed become flesh in order to redeem Israel. However, if one looks up the meaning of the Greek word, it means to look upon, in the sense of giving attention to. The Greek word rendered “visited” is borrowed from the Hebraic usage in the Old Testament, wherein forms of the Hebrew word transliterated as “Paqad” are used. For various usages/applicatons of the Hebrew word "paqad":
https://biblehub.com/hebrew/6485.htm
Some examples, using the World English:
Exodus 3:16 – Go, and gather the elders of Israel together, and tell them, ‘Yahweh, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, of Isaac, and of Jacob, has appeared to me, saying, “I have surely visited [paqad – turned attention to] you, and seen that which is done to you in Egypt”
Numbers 14:18 – 18 Yahweh is slow to anger, and abundant in lovingkindness, forgiving iniquity and disobedience; and that will by no means clear [the guilty], visiting [paqad] the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and on the fourth generation.
Ruth 1:6 Then she arose with her daughters-in-law, that she might return from the country of Moab: for she had heard in the country of Moab how that Yahweh had visited [paqad] his people in giving them bread.
1 Samuel 2:21 Yahweh visited Hannah, and she conceived, and bore three sons and two daughters. The child Samuel grew before Yahweh.
Psalm 89:32 Then I will punish [paqad] their sin with the rod, And their iniquity with stripes.
Isaiah 23:17 It shall happen after the end of seventy years, that Yahweh will visit [paqad] Tyre, and she shall return to her hire, and shall play the prostitute with all the kingdoms of the world on the surface of the earth.
Jeremiah 6:15 Were they ashamed when they had committed abomination? nay, they were not at all ashamed, neither could they blush: therefore they shall fall among those who fall; at the time that I visit [paqad] them they shall be cast down, says Yahweh.
These are only a few examples.
Some examples, using the World English:
Exodus 3:16 – Go, and gather the elders of Israel together, and tell them, ‘Yahweh, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, of Isaac, and of Jacob, has appeared to me, saying, “I have surely visited [paqad – turned attention to] you, and seen that which is done to you in Egypt”
Numbers 14:18 – 18 Yahweh is slow to anger, and abundant in lovingkindness, forgiving iniquity and disobedience; and that will by no means clear [the guilty], visiting [paqad] the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and on the fourth generation.
Ruth 1:6 Then she arose with her daughters-in-law, that she might return from the country of Moab: for she had heard in the country of Moab how that Yahweh had visited [paqad] his people in giving them bread.
1 Samuel 2:21 Yahweh visited Hannah, and she conceived, and bore three sons and two daughters. The child Samuel grew before Yahweh.
Psalm 89:32 Then I will punish [paqad] their sin with the rod, And their iniquity with stripes.
Isaiah 23:17 It shall happen after the end of seventy years, that Yahweh will visit [paqad] Tyre, and she shall return to her hire, and shall play the prostitute with all the kingdoms of the world on the surface of the earth.
Jeremiah 6:15 Were they ashamed when they had committed abomination? nay, they were not at all ashamed, neither could they blush: therefore they shall fall among those who fall; at the time that I visit [paqad] them they shall be cast down, says Yahweh.
These are only a few examples.
In Luke 1:68; 7:16, the corresponding Greek word is a form of the word transliterated as “Episkeptomai”. This word also carries a variety of meanings and usages:
https://biblehub.com/greek/1980.htm
https://biblehub.com/greek/1980.htm
https://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/kjv/episkeptomai.html
Consequently, in Luke 1:68,78 where Zechariah speaks of God’s turning his attention to his people, He does this by sending Jesus. It is Jehovah, the God of Israel, who had prepared and sent his Son to provide redemption (Hebrews 10:5,10); thus it is Jehovah who worked redemption through Jesus. This agrees with Paul’s thought in 1 Corinthians 8:6,7, as God is the source, and Jesus is the means. Just as Jehovah gave the Law through Moses, so he has given grace and truth through His Son, for the one person who is God reconciles us to Himself through someone who is not Himself, that is, Jesus. Jesus is the promised prophet of Jehovah who is like Moses. — Deuteronomy 18:15-20; John 1:17; Acts 3:13-26; 2 Corinthians 5:18; Hebrews 1:1,2.
Some, noting that Zechariah’s words in context are related to the birth of John, have suggested that Zechariah thought John was to deliver Israel from the Romans. This is not clearly stated, and this is most likely not what is meant. Nevertheless, it is possible that Zechariah, like the prophets in the Old Testament, did not understand the words he spoke as given to him through God’s Holy Spirit. Regardless what Zechariah may have thought concerning his words is not as important as understanding that Jehovah redeems His people through, by means of, the one He has appointed, his Son Jesus the Messiah. — John 3:17; Acts 3:24,25; 13:39; Romans 5:9; Colossians 1:13,14; Ephesians 1:3-7; 1 Peter 3:18.
At any rate, there is nothing in the words of either Luke 1:68,69,78 or Luke 7:16 about Jehovah being more than one person, or that gives any indication that Jesus was the Almighty Himself, and certainly nothing that gives us any reason to think that Jesus came in the flesh as a person of the Almighty.
References
The Very Greatest Prophet
Thayer gives the Greek form as used in Luke 1:68; 7:16 the following meaning:
Hebraistically, to look upon in order to help or to benefit, equivalent to look after, have a care for, provide for, of God: τινα, Luke 7:16; Hebrews 2:6 (Genesis 21:1; Exodus 4:31; Psalm 8:5; Psalm 79:15 (); Sir. 46:14; Judith 8:33, etc.); followed by a telic infinitive Acts 15:14; absolutely (Sir. 32:21 (Sir. 35:21)) yet with a statement of the effect and definite blessing added, Luke 1:68; ἐπεσκέψατο (WH Tr marginal reading ἐπισκέψεται) ἡμᾶς ἀνατολή ἐξ ὕψους a light from on high hath looked (others, shall look) upon us (cf. our the sun looks down on us, etc.), i. e. salvation from God has come to us, Luke 1:78. (In the O. T. used also in a bad sense of God as punishing, Psalm 88:33 (); Jeremiah 9:25; Jeremiah 11:22, etc.)
https://biblehub.com/greek/1980.htm
The above definitions do apply to the way the word form is used in Luke 1:68,78; 7:16, and the definitions given, do correspond with the way paqad is often used in the Old Testament scriptures. Regardless, Luke 1:68; 7:16 are definitely not saying the “prophet” of Jehovah (Deuteronomy 18:15-19) is Jehovah Himself! Any such idea has to be imagined and assumed and then read into what these scriptures state.
Consequently, in Luke 1:68,78 where Zechariah speaks of God’s turning his attention to his people, He does this by sending Jesus. It is Jehovah, the God of Israel, who had prepared and sent his Son to provide redemption (Hebrews 10:5,10); thus it is Jehovah who worked redemption through Jesus. This agrees with Paul’s thought in 1 Corinthians 8:6,7, as God is the source, and Jesus is the means. Just as Jehovah gave the Law through Moses, so he has given grace and truth through His Son, for the one person who is God reconciles us to Himself through someone who is not Himself, that is, Jesus. Jesus is the promised prophet of Jehovah who is like Moses. — Deuteronomy 18:15-20; John 1:17; Acts 3:13-26; 2 Corinthians 5:18; Hebrews 1:1,2.
Some, noting that Zechariah’s words in context are related to the birth of John, have suggested that Zechariah thought John was to deliver Israel from the Romans. This is not clearly stated, and this is most likely not what is meant. Nevertheless, it is possible that Zechariah, like the prophets in the Old Testament, did not understand the words he spoke as given to him through God’s Holy Spirit. Regardless what Zechariah may have thought concerning his words is not as important as understanding that Jehovah redeems His people through, by means of, the one He has appointed, his Son Jesus the Messiah. — John 3:17; Acts 3:24,25; 13:39; Romans 5:9; Colossians 1:13,14; Ephesians 1:3-7; 1 Peter 3:18.
At any rate, there is nothing in the words of either Luke 1:68,69,78 or Luke 7:16 about Jehovah being more than one person, or that gives any indication that Jesus was the Almighty Himself, and certainly nothing that gives us any reason to think that Jesus came in the flesh as a person of the Almighty.
References
The Very Greatest Prophet
The Promised Messiah
Originally published October 7, 2011; Edited and republished August 9, 2015; Edited 1/9/2022; 11/20/2022.
Originally published October 7, 2011; Edited and republished August 9, 2015; Edited 1/9/2022; 11/20/2022.
Friday, May 24, 2019
Isaiah 63:9,10 – The Messenger Of His Presence
Isaiah 63:9 In all their affliction he was afflicted, and the angel of his presence saved them: in his love and in his pity he redeemed them; and he bore them, and carried them all the days of old.
Isaiah 63:10 But they rebelled, and grieved his holy Spirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, [and] himself fought against them. — World English
In all their distress [He is] no adversary, And the messenger of His presence saved them, In His love and in His pity He redeemed them, And He doth lift them up, And beareth them all the days of old. — Isaiah 63:9, Young’s Literal
Isaiah 63:9,10 is sometimes presented as proof of the trinity, although there is actually nothing at all in these verses about a triune God.
The word “presence” in the phrase “the angel of Jehovah’s presence” probably refers to the pillar of cloud by day, and the pillar of light by night, that covered the tabernacle for 40 years. (Exodus 31:22,24) There are scriptures that do indicate that an angel who was connected with this cloud, as we read in Exodus 14:19-24. In Exodus 16:9,10, we read that the glory of Jehovah could be seen in the cloud; thus, the connection with the presence of Jehovah being represented in the cloud and the fire that led Israel. We further read in Exodus 40:34-38 that this cloud is associated with the glory of Jehovah. When the cloud moved, the Israelites would move with it, and when the cloud remained still, the Israelites would camp at that point. The indications of the cloud were considered commandments from Jehovah. (Numbers 9:15-23) Numbers 10:34 refers to it as “the cloud of Jehovah”. Thus, the conclusion is that the cloud, and possibly the angel associated with the cloud, is what Isaiah was referring to as the angel of Jehovah’s presence, that is, the angel whom Jehovah was using to lead the fire and the cloud, which represented the presence of Jehovah.
The Holy Spirit of Jehovah is Jehovah’s figurative finger (in action, power), or his figurative mouth (in words given). God’s holy spirit is likened to God’s finger (as the power of God). (Matthew 12:28; Luke 11:20) As the revealment of truth, the holy spirit appears to likened to God’s “mouth”. (1 Kings 8:24; 2 Chronicles 6:4; 36:12,21; Ezra 1:1; Isaiah 1:20; 40:5; 45:23; 48:3; 58:14; 62:2; Jeremiah 9:12,20; Ezekiel 33:7; Micah 4:4; Matthew 4:4; Mark 12:36; Acts 1:17; 28:25; Hebrews 3:7; 9:8; 10:15,16; 2 Peter 1:21) To provoke Jehovah’s mouth is to provoke Jehovah himself; likewise, to grieve Jehovah’s holy spirit is grieve Jehovah himself. There is nothing in this that means that Jehovah’s holy spirit is a separate and distinct person of Jehovah.
Exodus 33:1 Jehovah spoke to Moses, “Depart, go up from here, you and the people that you have brought up out of the land of Egypt, to the land of which I swore to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, saying, ‘I will give it to your seed.’
Exodus 33:2 I will send an angel before you; and I will drive out the Canaanite, the Amorite, and the Hittite, and the Perizzite, the Hivite, and the Jebusite:
Exodus 33:3 to a land flowing with milk and honey: for I will not go up in the midst of you, for you are a stiff-necked people, lest I consume you in the way.”
Some would claim that this “angel” that went before Israel is Jesus and that this “angel” is the same “angel” that is mentioned in Isaiah 63:9. Some cite 1 Corinthians 10:4 as proof that this angel of Jesus, although 1 Corinthians 10:4 says that Christ followed them, not that Christ went before them. Usually, these would claim that “the angel of his presence” means that the angel is in the presence of Jehovah, rather than being the messenger representing the presence of Jehovah. Many claim that the “angel of the his presence” corresponds to “the angel of Jehovah”, who, they claim, since he is addressed as “Jehovah”, must be Jehovah. Assuming that this “angel of Jehovah” is Jesus, then they further claim that this has to mean that Jesus is Jehovah, or, in the case of trinitarians, they have further imagine and assume that this means that Jesus is a person of Jehovah. This line of reasoning usually assumes that there is only one who is designated “the angel of Jehovah”.
Actually, the Hebrew is not definite; there is no definite article to correspond with “the” in the Hebrew. Thus, it is not “the” angel of Jehovah, but it could be rendered as “an” angel of Jehovah. The Bible speaks of many “angels of Jehovah”, and one is mentioned by name, that is, Gabriel. Garbriel is most definitely not Jesus. Although it is possible that Jesus, in his prehuman existence, may have appeared as an angel of Jehovah, there is no scripture that definitely shows that he did. Likewise, we do not know that the “angel” who went before Israel in the cloud representing the glory of Jehovah was Jesus, although we do believe that the cloud may be seen as providing a type of Jesus in that Jesus makes manifest the glory of Jehovah.
Nevetheless, to get “triune God” out of Isaiah 63:9, one would have imagine and assume several things. One would have to imagine and assume that “Jehovah”, spoken of in Isaiah 63:8, and the one referenced as “his” in Isaiah 63:10, is not the triune God, but rather one of the persons of the triune God. One would have to imagine that “angel/messenger” of Jehovah’s presence, refers not to the triune God, but rather to a person of the triune God. One would have further imagine and assume that Jehovah’s Holy Spirit that is referred to in Isaiah 63:10, is not the triune God, but rather a person of the triune God. In actuality, there is no scriptural reason to force such imaginations into the verses.
See our studies:
Angel of Jehovah
The Rock Was Christ
Isaiah 63:10 But they rebelled, and grieved his holy Spirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, [and] himself fought against them. — World English
In all their distress [He is] no adversary, And the messenger of His presence saved them, In His love and in His pity He redeemed them, And He doth lift them up, And beareth them all the days of old. — Isaiah 63:9, Young’s Literal
Isaiah 63:9,10 is sometimes presented as proof of the trinity, although there is actually nothing at all in these verses about a triune God.
The word “presence” in the phrase “the angel of Jehovah’s presence” probably refers to the pillar of cloud by day, and the pillar of light by night, that covered the tabernacle for 40 years. (Exodus 31:22,24) There are scriptures that do indicate that an angel who was connected with this cloud, as we read in Exodus 14:19-24. In Exodus 16:9,10, we read that the glory of Jehovah could be seen in the cloud; thus, the connection with the presence of Jehovah being represented in the cloud and the fire that led Israel. We further read in Exodus 40:34-38 that this cloud is associated with the glory of Jehovah. When the cloud moved, the Israelites would move with it, and when the cloud remained still, the Israelites would camp at that point. The indications of the cloud were considered commandments from Jehovah. (Numbers 9:15-23) Numbers 10:34 refers to it as “the cloud of Jehovah”. Thus, the conclusion is that the cloud, and possibly the angel associated with the cloud, is what Isaiah was referring to as the angel of Jehovah’s presence, that is, the angel whom Jehovah was using to lead the fire and the cloud, which represented the presence of Jehovah.
The Holy Spirit of Jehovah is Jehovah’s figurative finger (in action, power), or his figurative mouth (in words given). God’s holy spirit is likened to God’s finger (as the power of God). (Matthew 12:28; Luke 11:20) As the revealment of truth, the holy spirit appears to likened to God’s “mouth”. (1 Kings 8:24; 2 Chronicles 6:4; 36:12,21; Ezra 1:1; Isaiah 1:20; 40:5; 45:23; 48:3; 58:14; 62:2; Jeremiah 9:12,20; Ezekiel 33:7; Micah 4:4; Matthew 4:4; Mark 12:36; Acts 1:17; 28:25; Hebrews 3:7; 9:8; 10:15,16; 2 Peter 1:21) To provoke Jehovah’s mouth is to provoke Jehovah himself; likewise, to grieve Jehovah’s holy spirit is grieve Jehovah himself. There is nothing in this that means that Jehovah’s holy spirit is a separate and distinct person of Jehovah.
Exodus 33:1 Jehovah spoke to Moses, “Depart, go up from here, you and the people that you have brought up out of the land of Egypt, to the land of which I swore to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, saying, ‘I will give it to your seed.’
Exodus 33:2 I will send an angel before you; and I will drive out the Canaanite, the Amorite, and the Hittite, and the Perizzite, the Hivite, and the Jebusite:
Exodus 33:3 to a land flowing with milk and honey: for I will not go up in the midst of you, for you are a stiff-necked people, lest I consume you in the way.”
Some would claim that this “angel” that went before Israel is Jesus and that this “angel” is the same “angel” that is mentioned in Isaiah 63:9. Some cite 1 Corinthians 10:4 as proof that this angel of Jesus, although 1 Corinthians 10:4 says that Christ followed them, not that Christ went before them. Usually, these would claim that “the angel of his presence” means that the angel is in the presence of Jehovah, rather than being the messenger representing the presence of Jehovah. Many claim that the “angel of the his presence” corresponds to “the angel of Jehovah”, who, they claim, since he is addressed as “Jehovah”, must be Jehovah. Assuming that this “angel of Jehovah” is Jesus, then they further claim that this has to mean that Jesus is Jehovah, or, in the case of trinitarians, they have further imagine and assume that this means that Jesus is a person of Jehovah. This line of reasoning usually assumes that there is only one who is designated “the angel of Jehovah”.
Actually, the Hebrew is not definite; there is no definite article to correspond with “the” in the Hebrew. Thus, it is not “the” angel of Jehovah, but it could be rendered as “an” angel of Jehovah. The Bible speaks of many “angels of Jehovah”, and one is mentioned by name, that is, Gabriel. Garbriel is most definitely not Jesus. Although it is possible that Jesus, in his prehuman existence, may have appeared as an angel of Jehovah, there is no scripture that definitely shows that he did. Likewise, we do not know that the “angel” who went before Israel in the cloud representing the glory of Jehovah was Jesus, although we do believe that the cloud may be seen as providing a type of Jesus in that Jesus makes manifest the glory of Jehovah.
Nevetheless, to get “triune God” out of Isaiah 63:9, one would have imagine and assume several things. One would have to imagine and assume that “Jehovah”, spoken of in Isaiah 63:8, and the one referenced as “his” in Isaiah 63:10, is not the triune God, but rather one of the persons of the triune God. One would have to imagine that “angel/messenger” of Jehovah’s presence, refers not to the triune God, but rather to a person of the triune God. One would have further imagine and assume that Jehovah’s Holy Spirit that is referred to in Isaiah 63:10, is not the triune God, but rather a person of the triune God. In actuality, there is no scriptural reason to force such imaginations into the verses.
See our studies:
Angel of Jehovah
The Rock Was Christ
Saturday, May 18, 2019
Revelation 22:3 - His Servants -- Is This Proof that Jesus is Jehovah?
It is being claimed that in Revelation 22:2,3 that God and the Lamb are both being referred to as "his" and "him." From this the assumption appears to be that the God and Lamb are both the same being. It default reasoning, however, is that the singular pronouns are not being applied to both God and the Lamb, but either to one or the other. Revelation 22:4 indicates that his and him in verse 3 is the one whom Jesus refers to as "my God" in Revelation 3:12.
The Greek word for serve - latreuo -- here is usually only used in the New Testament of the Father [except in idolatrous servitude -- Acts 7:42; Romans 1:25], or in relation to service to the Father. One could see Hebrews 8:5; 13:1 as exceptions, although one could also see that also as being service to the Father. Some claim that in Revelation 22:3, this word is used of the Lamb, but in view of its usage in Revelation 7:15, it should be realized that it is referring to service to "God".
{Revelation 22:1} He [the angel] showed me [John] a river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God [who is one person] and of the Lamb [who is not God, but the Lamb provided by God -- John 1:29,36; 3:17; Galatians 4:4; 1 John 4:10],
{Revelation 22:2} in the middle of its street. On this side of the river and on that was the tree of life, bearing twelve kinds of fruits, yielding its fruit every month. The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
{Revelation 22:3} There will be no curse any more. The throne of God [one person] and of the Lamb [who is not God, but the Lamb provided by God] will be in it, and his [God, in harmony with "his" in verse 4, although it could be referring to Lamb] servants serve him [evidently, God, in harmony "his" in verse 4].
{Revelation 22:4} They will see his [God's] face, and his [God's] name will be on their [the servants, the 144,000 -- the joint-heirs with Christ] foreheads. -- Romans 8:17; Revelation 3:12; 14:1.
{Revelation 22:5} There will be no night, and they need no lamp light; for Jehovah God will illuminate them. They [God, the Lamb and possibly the servants -- Daniel 7:18] will reign forever and ever.
Throughout these verses, "God" is presented as being only one person, and is distinguished from the Lamb, who is Jesus.
We certainly do not find anything in the verses that present God as being more than one person (trinity), or that Jesus is the one whom he calls "my God" (oneness/ modalism). -- Revelation 3:12.
The Greek word for serve - latreuo -- here is usually only used in the New Testament of the Father [except in idolatrous servitude -- Acts 7:42; Romans 1:25], or in relation to service to the Father. One could see Hebrews 8:5; 13:1 as exceptions, although one could also see that also as being service to the Father. Some claim that in Revelation 22:3, this word is used of the Lamb, but in view of its usage in Revelation 7:15, it should be realized that it is referring to service to "God".
{Revelation 22:2} in the middle of its street. On this side of the river and on that was the tree of life, bearing twelve kinds of fruits, yielding its fruit every month. The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
{Revelation 22:3} There will be no curse any more. The throne of God [one person] and of the Lamb [who is not God, but the Lamb provided by God] will be in it, and his [God, in harmony with "his" in verse 4, although it could be referring to Lamb] servants serve him [evidently, God, in harmony "his" in verse 4].
{Revelation 22:4} They will see his [God's] face, and his [God's] name will be on their [the servants, the 144,000 -- the joint-heirs with Christ] foreheads. -- Romans 8:17; Revelation 3:12; 14:1.
{Revelation 22:5} There will be no night, and they need no lamp light; for Jehovah God will illuminate them. They [God, the Lamb and possibly the servants -- Daniel 7:18] will reign forever and ever.
Throughout these verses, "God" is presented as being only one person, and is distinguished from the Lamb, who is Jesus.
We certainly do not find anything in the verses that present God as being more than one person (trinity), or that Jesus is the one whom he calls "my God" (oneness/ modalism). -- Revelation 3:12.
Saturday, April 13, 2019
* Amos 4:11 – When God Overthrew Sodom
“I have overthrown some of you, As when God [Hebrew, ELOHIM] overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah, And you were like a burning stick plucked out of the fire; Yet you have not returned to me,” says Jehovah. — Amos 4:11, Restoration Light Improved Version.
This scripture is often cited as proof that Jehovah is more than one person. The claim by some trinitarians is that in some vague manner two persons of their trinitarian philosophy are represented in this scripture. According to one trinitarian: “One must assume that the speaker is the Lord Jesus Christ and that the overthrow of Sodom and Gomorrah was a judgment of the whole Godhead.” It is true that some kind of assumption needs to be made; it is not true that one “must” assume that the speaker is Lord Jesus Christ, nor that Jesus is a person of an alleged “Godhead” of persons, etc.
Indeed, the trinitarian dogma is imagined, assumed and then placed into the scripture;. Without the added assumptions that are based on the added-on trinitarian dogma, the idea of more than one person in Jehovah is not seen in the scripture. Thus, what is presented as proof of the trinity in Amos 4:11 -- as is true throughout the Bible -- is not the scripture itself, but rather what has to be imagined, assumed, added to, and read into, in the scripture in order to make the scripture appear to support the added-on dogma.
The speaker is directly identified as Jehovah, not Jesus. We have shown elsewhere that on several occasions Bible personages refer to themselves in the third person, even as many orientals and others sometimes do to this very day. Jehovah does this also as recorded in Exodus 3:12; 24:1 and Exodus 19:1,2. This appears to be a method of emphasis. Jehovah is simply identifying himself as the God of Israel who overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah. This can be seen from Amos 4:12,13: “Therefore thus will I do to you, Israel; Because I will do this to you, Prepare to meet your God, Israel. For, behold, he who forms the mountains, And creates the wind, And declares to man what is his thought; Who makes the morning darkness, And treads on the high places of the Earth: Jehovah, the God of hosts, is his name.” From this we can see that the God who overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah is none other than Jehovah, the God of hosts, the God of Israel.
We need to remember that Amos himself was writing this book in address to Israel. With this in mind, another view presented by some is that Amos is quoting Jehovah indirectly, and refers back to the Pentateuch with references to God in the third person. This view is stated by James Coffman:
Some critics make a big thing out of God being referred to in this verse (Amos 4:11) in the third person, whereas, the first person is otherwise prominent throughout; but this is not due to any interpolation, and only signifies that Amos unconsciously reverted to quotations from the Pentateuch in mentioning Sodom and Gomorrah, as anyone familiar with the Bible would have done.
==========
Coffman, James Burton. “Commentary on Amos 4”. “Coffman Commentaries on the Old and New Testament”.
http://www.studylight.org/com/bcc/view.cgi?book=am&chapter=004.
Abilene Christian University Press, Abilene, Texas, USA. 1983-1999.
Still remembering that it is Amos who is delivering the message to Israel, another way of looking at the scripture is that Amos interjected the thought parenthetically. We need to remember that there was no punctuation in the Hebrew. With this thought, the verse could be read as: “I have overthrown some of you,” — (As when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah) — “And you were like a burning stick plucked out of the fire; Yet you haven’t returned to me,” says Jehovah. From this standpoint, it would be understood as the prophet himself interjected the point while quoting Jehovah.
Regardless, the idea that this offers proof of the trinity depends on accepting belief in the trinity to begin with and then using circular reasoning to say that because one believes this is speaking of the trinity, then this is proof of the trinity. In actuality, there is nothing in this scripture that offers any proof of the trinity or plurality of persons in the Almighty God, and it offers no reason for adding to the scriptures a story about three persons in God.
Upon further investigation, we have added some more thoughts at:
Amos 4:11 – Does This Speak of Two Jehovahs?
This scripture is often cited as proof that Jehovah is more than one person. The claim by some trinitarians is that in some vague manner two persons of their trinitarian philosophy are represented in this scripture. According to one trinitarian: “One must assume that the speaker is the Lord Jesus Christ and that the overthrow of Sodom and Gomorrah was a judgment of the whole Godhead.” It is true that some kind of assumption needs to be made; it is not true that one “must” assume that the speaker is Lord Jesus Christ, nor that Jesus is a person of an alleged “Godhead” of persons, etc.
Indeed, the trinitarian dogma is imagined, assumed and then placed into the scripture;. Without the added assumptions that are based on the added-on trinitarian dogma, the idea of more than one person in Jehovah is not seen in the scripture. Thus, what is presented as proof of the trinity in Amos 4:11 -- as is true throughout the Bible -- is not the scripture itself, but rather what has to be imagined, assumed, added to, and read into, in the scripture in order to make the scripture appear to support the added-on dogma.
The speaker is directly identified as Jehovah, not Jesus. We have shown elsewhere that on several occasions Bible personages refer to themselves in the third person, even as many orientals and others sometimes do to this very day. Jehovah does this also as recorded in Exodus 3:12; 24:1 and Exodus 19:1,2. This appears to be a method of emphasis. Jehovah is simply identifying himself as the God of Israel who overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah. This can be seen from Amos 4:12,13: “Therefore thus will I do to you, Israel; Because I will do this to you, Prepare to meet your God, Israel. For, behold, he who forms the mountains, And creates the wind, And declares to man what is his thought; Who makes the morning darkness, And treads on the high places of the Earth: Jehovah, the God of hosts, is his name.” From this we can see that the God who overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah is none other than Jehovah, the God of hosts, the God of Israel.
We need to remember that Amos himself was writing this book in address to Israel. With this in mind, another view presented by some is that Amos is quoting Jehovah indirectly, and refers back to the Pentateuch with references to God in the third person. This view is stated by James Coffman:
Some critics make a big thing out of God being referred to in this verse (Amos 4:11) in the third person, whereas, the first person is otherwise prominent throughout; but this is not due to any interpolation, and only signifies that Amos unconsciously reverted to quotations from the Pentateuch in mentioning Sodom and Gomorrah, as anyone familiar with the Bible would have done.
==========
Coffman, James Burton. “Commentary on Amos 4”. “Coffman Commentaries on the Old and New Testament”.
http://www.studylight.org/com/bcc/view.cgi?book=am&chapter=004.
Abilene Christian University Press, Abilene, Texas, USA. 1983-1999.
Still remembering that it is Amos who is delivering the message to Israel, another way of looking at the scripture is that Amos interjected the thought parenthetically. We need to remember that there was no punctuation in the Hebrew. With this thought, the verse could be read as: “I have overthrown some of you,” — (As when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah) — “And you were like a burning stick plucked out of the fire; Yet you haven’t returned to me,” says Jehovah. From this standpoint, it would be understood as the prophet himself interjected the point while quoting Jehovah.
Regardless, the idea that this offers proof of the trinity depends on accepting belief in the trinity to begin with and then using circular reasoning to say that because one believes this is speaking of the trinity, then this is proof of the trinity. In actuality, there is nothing in this scripture that offers any proof of the trinity or plurality of persons in the Almighty God, and it offers no reason for adding to the scriptures a story about three persons in God.
Upon further investigation, we have added some more thoughts at:
Amos 4:11 – Does This Speak of Two Jehovahs?
Monday, April 1, 2019
Job 19:25 - Job's Redeemer and the Messiah
Job 19:25 But as for me, I know that my Redeemer lives.(a) In the end, he will stand [arise, be established - same word used in Deuteronomy 18:18(b)] upon the earth.
Job 19:26 After my skin is destroyed, Then in my flesh shall I see God,
Job 19:27 Whom I, even I, shall see on my side. My eyes shall see, and not as a stranger. "My heart is consumed within me."
=======
(a) http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/hebrew/kjv/quwm.html
(b) http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/hebrew/kjv/chay.html
Some quote Job 19:25 and claim that this speaking of Jesus, and that since Jehovah is spoke of redeemer in the Old Testament, this is alleged to prove that Jesus is Jehovah.
First we need to note that there is nothing in these verses that give any indication that Jehovah is more than one person; there is nothing stated to the effect that Jesus is Jehovah. There is definitely nothin in these verses or any other verses in the Bible that depict Jehovah as being more than one person, as claimed by trinitarians. Any such thoughts have to be assumed and read into what is being stated.
Job later stated to Jehovah: "now my eye sees you." (Job 42:5) No man can actually see the substance of God Himself and live; Job had not physically seen the substance of God, thus he was speaking of seeing with his mental eyes, his understanding.
Job expresses that he knows that His redeemer lives; this statement has been variously interpreted. If Job was referring to Jehovah (Yahweh) as his redeemer, yes, his redeemer was then living. Jesus, also, was then living with his God and Father in heaven (John 17:5), but we do not know that such knowledge was revealed to Job.
We should remember that Hebrew verbs do not represent time tense, as do verbs in most of our modern languages, such as English. Additionally, Job, more than likely, had heard of God's promise of a redeemer, seed of the woman (Genesis 3:15), the seed of Abraham, who was to deliver mankind and bring forth the blessings of all the nations. (Genesis 28:14) Thus, if Job was speaking of the coming redeemer, Job expresses that he knows that his redeemer will live, in the future. At the time that Job spoke the words recorded in Job 19, he had not yet heard and seen that which God later spoke to him. Yet, by faith, he looked forward to the coming time when his redeemer would come and be established upon the earth. Jesus did come in these latter times (Hebrews 1:2) and he physically stood upon the earth back in what we today call the first century AD. Having now sacrificed his body of flesh for our sins (Hebrews 10:10; 1 Peter 3:18), we have no reason to believe that Jesus will physically stand upon the earth again with such a body of flesh, although it is possible that he could do similarly to way that angels appeared a "men" at various times. Job, however believed that even though his flesh be destroyed, he would yet in his flesh be able to see God.
Some may object that since Job uses the present tense, that this could not apply to then yet coming Messiah, and that Job did not have knowledge that Jesus was then existing. As already noted, Biblical Hebrew does not have tenses; in English, however, we express practically everything with verbs as related to time. Biblical Hebrew does not do this. Thus, Job could have been have been speaking of the one yet to come, in whom was life, a life that could be given to God for the deliverance of mankind from the condemnation of death. -- John 1:4; Matthew 20:28; Mark 10:45; Ephesians 5:2.
Young's translation renders Isaiah 11:6-9:
6 And a wolf hath sojourned with a lamb, And a leopard with a kid doth lie down, And calf, and young lion, and fatling [are] together, And a little youth is leader over them. 7 And cow and bear do feed, Together lie down their young ones, And a lion as an ox eateth straw. 8 And played hath a suckling by the hole of an asp, And on the den of a cockatrice Hath the weaned one put his hand. 9 Evil they do not, nor destroy in all My holy mountain, For full hath been the earth with the knowledge of Jehovah, As the waters are covering the sea.
However, most translators put this in the future tense:
6 And the wolf shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. 7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together; and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. 8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the adder's den. 9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain; for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of Jehovah, as the waters cover the sea. -- American Standard Version.
However, it is possible that Job was speaking of Jehovah as being the Redeemer; if so, we certainly should not expect that Jehovah Himself will physically stand on the earth, and that people will be able to look upon the Most High. (Exodus 33:20; John 1:18) In Exodus 17:6, Jehovah used the same Hebrew word for "stand" as Job used in Job 19:25. Jehovah said to Moses: "Behold, I will stand before thee there upon the rock in Horeb; and thou shalt smite the rock, and there shall come water out of it, that the people may drink." (ASV) Was Jehovah there in some physical body standing before Moses? No, we have no reason to think so; but we would should rather reason that by "stand" Jehovah meant His invisible spiritual presence.
Nevertheless, God is the redeemer in the sense that he is source of redemption, and He will certainly become established throughout the whole earth in that the knowledge of His glory will indeed fill the earth. Jehovah redeems man by means of his son, who is to deliver man out of the condition of sin and back into harmony with God. With such redemption, one can then "see" God, that is, mentally comprehend things pertaining to God which he could not otherwise comprehend. Job knew that such comprehension would come when he is raised in the day of the resurrection..
Job 19:26 After my skin is destroyed, Then in my flesh shall I see God,
Job 19:27 Whom I, even I, shall see on my side. My eyes shall see, and not as a stranger. "My heart is consumed within me."
=======
(a) http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/hebrew/kjv/quwm.html
(b) http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/hebrew/kjv/chay.html
Some quote Job 19:25 and claim that this speaking of Jesus, and that since Jehovah is spoke of redeemer in the Old Testament, this is alleged to prove that Jesus is Jehovah.
First we need to note that there is nothing in these verses that give any indication that Jehovah is more than one person; there is nothing stated to the effect that Jesus is Jehovah. There is definitely nothin in these verses or any other verses in the Bible that depict Jehovah as being more than one person, as claimed by trinitarians. Any such thoughts have to be assumed and read into what is being stated.
Job later stated to Jehovah: "now my eye sees you." (Job 42:5) No man can actually see the substance of God Himself and live; Job had not physically seen the substance of God, thus he was speaking of seeing with his mental eyes, his understanding.
Job expresses that he knows that His redeemer lives; this statement has been variously interpreted. If Job was referring to Jehovah (Yahweh) as his redeemer, yes, his redeemer was then living. Jesus, also, was then living with his God and Father in heaven (John 17:5), but we do not know that such knowledge was revealed to Job.
We should remember that Hebrew verbs do not represent time tense, as do verbs in most of our modern languages, such as English. Additionally, Job, more than likely, had heard of God's promise of a redeemer, seed of the woman (Genesis 3:15), the seed of Abraham, who was to deliver mankind and bring forth the blessings of all the nations. (Genesis 28:14) Thus, if Job was speaking of the coming redeemer, Job expresses that he knows that his redeemer will live, in the future. At the time that Job spoke the words recorded in Job 19, he had not yet heard and seen that which God later spoke to him. Yet, by faith, he looked forward to the coming time when his redeemer would come and be established upon the earth. Jesus did come in these latter times (Hebrews 1:2) and he physically stood upon the earth back in what we today call the first century AD. Having now sacrificed his body of flesh for our sins (Hebrews 10:10; 1 Peter 3:18), we have no reason to believe that Jesus will physically stand upon the earth again with such a body of flesh, although it is possible that he could do similarly to way that angels appeared a "men" at various times. Job, however believed that even though his flesh be destroyed, he would yet in his flesh be able to see God.
Some may object that since Job uses the present tense, that this could not apply to then yet coming Messiah, and that Job did not have knowledge that Jesus was then existing. As already noted, Biblical Hebrew does not have tenses; in English, however, we express practically everything with verbs as related to time. Biblical Hebrew does not do this. Thus, Job could have been have been speaking of the one yet to come, in whom was life, a life that could be given to God for the deliverance of mankind from the condemnation of death. -- John 1:4; Matthew 20:28; Mark 10:45; Ephesians 5:2.
Young's translation renders Isaiah 11:6-9:
6 And a wolf hath sojourned with a lamb, And a leopard with a kid doth lie down, And calf, and young lion, and fatling [are] together, And a little youth is leader over them. 7 And cow and bear do feed, Together lie down their young ones, And a lion as an ox eateth straw. 8 And played hath a suckling by the hole of an asp, And on the den of a cockatrice Hath the weaned one put his hand. 9 Evil they do not, nor destroy in all My holy mountain, For full hath been the earth with the knowledge of Jehovah, As the waters are covering the sea.
However, most translators put this in the future tense:
6 And the wolf shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. 7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together; and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. 8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the adder's den. 9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain; for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of Jehovah, as the waters cover the sea. -- American Standard Version.
However, it is possible that Job was speaking of Jehovah as being the Redeemer; if so, we certainly should not expect that Jehovah Himself will physically stand on the earth, and that people will be able to look upon the Most High. (Exodus 33:20; John 1:18) In Exodus 17:6, Jehovah used the same Hebrew word for "stand" as Job used in Job 19:25. Jehovah said to Moses: "Behold, I will stand before thee there upon the rock in Horeb; and thou shalt smite the rock, and there shall come water out of it, that the people may drink." (ASV) Was Jehovah there in some physical body standing before Moses? No, we have no reason to think so; but we would should rather reason that by "stand" Jehovah meant His invisible spiritual presence.
Nevertheless, God is the redeemer in the sense that he is source of redemption, and He will certainly become established throughout the whole earth in that the knowledge of His glory will indeed fill the earth. Jehovah redeems man by means of his son, who is to deliver man out of the condition of sin and back into harmony with God. With such redemption, one can then "see" God, that is, mentally comprehend things pertaining to God which he could not otherwise comprehend. Job knew that such comprehension would come when he is raised in the day of the resurrection..
Saturday, January 12, 2019
Saturday, January 5, 2019
Hebrews 13:8 - Jesus Remains the Same
Hebrews 13:8 -- Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. — World English.
Hebrews 13:8 is often cited as proof of the deity of Christ; by deity the thought is meant to say that Christ is the Most High Jehovah (some prefer Yahweh) Himself. We believe that Jesus is deity - mighty - but we do not believe that Jesus' deity means that Jesus is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
Obviously, since there is nothing in the verse that says that Jesus is Jehovah, what is expected is that one should read such a thought into the verse.
The question was asked concerning Hebrews 13:8, “How can Jesus be created, since he was the same yesterday?”
Additionally, Hebrews 13:8 is often quoted as proof that Jesus has what they claim is an immutable nature of God, possessing a nature (by which they mean the plan of existence as being God Almighty) which never changes. Is Hebrews 13:8 talking about an unchangeable “nature”, as that word is defined by trinitarians and many others? Has there been absolutely no change at all in Jesus as far as plane of existence is concerned? Could it mean that Jesus has always been and always will be of a “human nature” and a “God nature” (We speak in terms of those who believe that Jesus had two “natures” at once)? Although many sometimes use this scripture and speak of his having unchangeable “nature”, the scripture does not specify anything about such a matter.
Actually we have no reason to think that Paul is speaking of not having any change in plane of existence, as some seem to wish to have this verse say.
Paul, in context, is talking about imitating the faithfulness of the those taking the lead in faith. Jesus *is* our leader/master (Matthew 23:10), our pastor (shepherd -- Hebrews 13:20), the chief leader and perfector of our faith (Hebrews 12:2). Jesus was always "faithful to him who appointed him" (Hebrews 3:2), he never failed in his service to his God, Jehovah. (Micah 5:2) Jesus, as an example of faith, is the same yesterday, today and forever. Of course, Jesus has proven himself unchangeable in doing the will of his God, and thus the good news is that he brought life and incorruptitibility to light. (2 Timothy 1:10) It is this quality which makes him so reliable and so completely trustworthy. His promises never fail, his word is steadfast, and his abiding assistance can always be counted on by his followers.
Hebrews 13:8, however, is not saying that Jesus did not leave the glory he had with his God and become flesh, which was indeed a “change” from the celestial, non-physical glory to that of the fleshly, terrestrial glory. (1 Corinthians 15:39-41;) Jesus, while in the days of his flesh, did not have his former heavenly glory, but he had the terrestrial, fleshly glory of a man, a little lower than the angels. (John 17:5; Hebrews 2:9; 5:7) God Almighty did not become flesh, as some have claimed, pointing to John 1:1,14. It was the son of God Almighty that became flesh, having the glory of the earthly body, a little lower than the angels. (John 10:36; Hebrews 2:7). John 1:14 does not say that the Logos "took on" flesh as many claim, but rather he became or was made flesh. The Logos of God, not God Almighty, did indeed become flesh. If God Almighty became flesh, that would mean that God Almighty became physical flesh, that Jesus’ body of flesh and blood itself was God Almighty, that therefore God Almighty has given God Almighty in sacrifice to God Almighty, and thus Almighty God was dead. — John 6:51; Ephesians 5:2.
One must take this verse in context. We know that Jesus did change, as far as plane of existence is concerned. He was “made” or “became” flesh — a little lower than the angels. (Hebrews 2:9) The contextual point the author of Hebrews is making here is that the teachings and faithfulness of Jesus Christ are now the same as when they were first taught, and will continue the same forever, and we most certainly should imitate his faith. Read verses 7-9 carefully. We are told to “Remember your leaders, men who spoke to you the word of God, and considering the results of their conduct, imitate their faith.” Then, suddenly, we are reminded: Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. It is a reminder of a greater exemplar than the ones just spoken of.
Yes, Jesus proved himself unchangeable, not only in his faithfulness to his God, but in full and total obedience to God in every detail. (Hebrews 3:2; 4:15) Jesus was not only faithful, however, as a human, but also before his becoming a human. (Proverbs 8:22-30) This does not mean that Jesus was/is his God to whom he was faithful.
Did not Jesus “change” from one glory to another glory so as to become a human? When he became a human, this was certainly a change, even if the change was in trinitarian terms where he supposedly added the “human nature” to his “God nature”, for he would have “changed” from one “nature” to two “natures”. Therefore, we have no reason to think that Paul is speaking of not having any change in plane of existence, as some seem to wish to have this verse say.
Paul, in context, is talking about imitating the faithfulness of the those taking the lead in faith. Jesus is the one whom we are become like in faith; his example of faith is the same yesterday, today and forever.
Of course, Jesus has proven himself unchangeable in doing the will of his God. It is this quality which makes him so reliable and so completely trustworthy. His promises never fail, his word is steadfast, and his abiding assistance can always be counted on by his followers.
Hebrews 13:8, however, is not saying that Jesus did not leave the glory he had with his God and become flesh, which was indeed a “change” from one glory to another glory. (1 Corinthians 15:40) If God Almighty became flesh, that would mean that Jesus’ flesh itself was God Almighty, and that therefore God Almighty has given God Almighty to God Almighty, and thus Almighty God was dead. — John 6:51; Ephesians 5:2.
This verse is not saying that Jesus never changed from spiritual body to physical body and then again to spiritual body; we know that he did go through those changes. While he was in the days of his flesh (Hebrews 5:7), Jesus did not possess the glory of the spiritual body that he had when he was with his God and Father before the world of mankind was made through him. (John 1:1,10; 17:1,3,5; 1 Corinthians 15:40) While in the days of his flesh (Hebrews 5:7); he did have the bodily glory of a sinless human being who never once sinned. (John 1:14; Romans 3:23; 2 Corinthians 5:21; Hebrews 2:9; 10:5; 1 Peter 2:21,22) Since he sacrificed his glory as a human for sin, he is no longer a human being, a little lower than the angels, but now possesses he bodily glory that is above the angels. — Colossians 2:9,10; Ephesians 1:3,17-23; Hebrews 1:4; 1 Peter 3:22.
We know that Jesus did change, as far as plane of existence is concerned. He was “made” or “became” flesh — a little lower than the angels. The point the author of Hebrews is making here is that the teachings of Jesus Christ are now the same as when they were first taught, and will continue the same forever, and we most certainly should imitate his faith. Read verses 7-9 carefully. We are told to “Remember your leaders, men who spoke to you the word of God, and considering the results of their conduct, imitate their faith.” Then, suddenly, we are reminded: Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. It is a reminder of a greater exemplar than the ones just spoken of.
Yes, Jesus proved himself unchangeable, not only in his faithfulness to his God, but in full and total obedience to God in every detail. (Hebrews 3:2; 4:15) Jesus was not only faithful, however, as a human, but also before his becoming a human. (Proverbs 8:22-30) This does not mean that Jesus was/is his God to whom he was faithful.
What about the claim that the expression “the same yesterday, today, and forever” means that Jesus was not created, that he was “begotten in eternity”? The word ‘yesterday” actually contradicts the idea of duration without beginning, or existence outside of time. A yesterday simply reflects a day before the present day. But a day has a beginning; so has a yesterday. A day, in the Bible as well in everyday speech, does not always mean a 24-hour day based on the rotation of the earth. The word “day” sometimes signifies an indefinite time, or a set period of time. (Genesis 2:4; Isaiah 22:5; 2 Corinthians 6:2; Hebrews 3:8, etc.) The yesterday, and today spoken of in the verse are periods of time.
The Greek word translated “forever” literally means “to the ages” (Young’s Literal Translation). This latter expression relates to all ages to come, and does express future eternity in that sense. But in relation to the ages to come, “today” would refer to the Gospel age, the age we are now in, the day of salvation for the church. (2 Corinthians 6:2) Earlier in the book of Hebrews Paul contrasts the present “day” with that of the Israelites. (Hebrews 3:7,13; 4:7) Thus “yesterday” in this context would refer to the Jewish Age. (Isaiah 65:2; Romans 10:21; Hebrews 4:7-10) Whether this application is correct or not, there is nothing in the word “yesterday” that means an eternal past. Indeed, many trinitarian scholars reach similar conclusions regarding Hebrews 13:8.
Jesus never changed in his faithful obedience toward his God, and this is what is being discussed in context. Jesus is our greatest exemplar of faith, since he never once disobeyed God, and he always was faithful to his God and Father, the only true God, even more so than was Moses, who is listed amongst the men of faith that we are to imitate in faith. — Hebrews 3:2; 11:4-12:3; 13:7-9.
What we do not find is anything in Hebrews 13:8 that designates Jesus as being uncreated; we certainly find nothing that designates Jesus as being the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, or that Jesus is a person of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, or that the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob exists as more than one person, etc. Indeed, such ideas have to be added to, and read into, what is stated.
Hebrews 13:8 is often cited as proof of the deity of Christ; by deity the thought is meant to say that Christ is the Most High Jehovah (some prefer Yahweh) Himself. We believe that Jesus is deity - mighty - but we do not believe that Jesus' deity means that Jesus is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
Obviously, since there is nothing in the verse that says that Jesus is Jehovah, what is expected is that one should read such a thought into the verse.
The question was asked concerning Hebrews 13:8, “How can Jesus be created, since he was the same yesterday?”
Additionally, Hebrews 13:8 is often quoted as proof that Jesus has what they claim is an immutable nature of God, possessing a nature (by which they mean the plan of existence as being God Almighty) which never changes. Is Hebrews 13:8 talking about an unchangeable “nature”, as that word is defined by trinitarians and many others? Has there been absolutely no change at all in Jesus as far as plane of existence is concerned? Could it mean that Jesus has always been and always will be of a “human nature” and a “God nature” (We speak in terms of those who believe that Jesus had two “natures” at once)? Although many sometimes use this scripture and speak of his having unchangeable “nature”, the scripture does not specify anything about such a matter.
Actually we have no reason to think that Paul is speaking of not having any change in plane of existence, as some seem to wish to have this verse say.
Paul, in context, is talking about imitating the faithfulness of the those taking the lead in faith. Jesus *is* our leader/master (Matthew 23:10), our pastor (shepherd -- Hebrews 13:20), the chief leader and perfector of our faith (Hebrews 12:2). Jesus was always "faithful to him who appointed him" (Hebrews 3:2), he never failed in his service to his God, Jehovah. (Micah 5:2) Jesus, as an example of faith, is the same yesterday, today and forever. Of course, Jesus has proven himself unchangeable in doing the will of his God, and thus the good news is that he brought life and incorruptitibility to light. (2 Timothy 1:10) It is this quality which makes him so reliable and so completely trustworthy. His promises never fail, his word is steadfast, and his abiding assistance can always be counted on by his followers.
Hebrews 13:8, however, is not saying that Jesus did not leave the glory he had with his God and become flesh, which was indeed a “change” from the celestial, non-physical glory to that of the fleshly, terrestrial glory. (1 Corinthians 15:39-41;) Jesus, while in the days of his flesh, did not have his former heavenly glory, but he had the terrestrial, fleshly glory of a man, a little lower than the angels. (John 17:5; Hebrews 2:9; 5:7) God Almighty did not become flesh, as some have claimed, pointing to John 1:1,14. It was the son of God Almighty that became flesh, having the glory of the earthly body, a little lower than the angels. (John 10:36; Hebrews 2:7). John 1:14 does not say that the Logos "took on" flesh as many claim, but rather he became or was made flesh. The Logos of God, not God Almighty, did indeed become flesh. If God Almighty became flesh, that would mean that God Almighty became physical flesh, that Jesus’ body of flesh and blood itself was God Almighty, that therefore God Almighty has given God Almighty in sacrifice to God Almighty, and thus Almighty God was dead. — John 6:51; Ephesians 5:2.
One must take this verse in context. We know that Jesus did change, as far as plane of existence is concerned. He was “made” or “became” flesh — a little lower than the angels. (Hebrews 2:9) The contextual point the author of Hebrews is making here is that the teachings and faithfulness of Jesus Christ are now the same as when they were first taught, and will continue the same forever, and we most certainly should imitate his faith. Read verses 7-9 carefully. We are told to “Remember your leaders, men who spoke to you the word of God, and considering the results of their conduct, imitate their faith.” Then, suddenly, we are reminded: Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. It is a reminder of a greater exemplar than the ones just spoken of.
Yes, Jesus proved himself unchangeable, not only in his faithfulness to his God, but in full and total obedience to God in every detail. (Hebrews 3:2; 4:15) Jesus was not only faithful, however, as a human, but also before his becoming a human. (Proverbs 8:22-30) This does not mean that Jesus was/is his God to whom he was faithful.
Did not Jesus “change” from one glory to another glory so as to become a human? When he became a human, this was certainly a change, even if the change was in trinitarian terms where he supposedly added the “human nature” to his “God nature”, for he would have “changed” from one “nature” to two “natures”. Therefore, we have no reason to think that Paul is speaking of not having any change in plane of existence, as some seem to wish to have this verse say.
Paul, in context, is talking about imitating the faithfulness of the those taking the lead in faith. Jesus is the one whom we are become like in faith; his example of faith is the same yesterday, today and forever.
Of course, Jesus has proven himself unchangeable in doing the will of his God. It is this quality which makes him so reliable and so completely trustworthy. His promises never fail, his word is steadfast, and his abiding assistance can always be counted on by his followers.
Hebrews 13:8, however, is not saying that Jesus did not leave the glory he had with his God and become flesh, which was indeed a “change” from one glory to another glory. (1 Corinthians 15:40) If God Almighty became flesh, that would mean that Jesus’ flesh itself was God Almighty, and that therefore God Almighty has given God Almighty to God Almighty, and thus Almighty God was dead. — John 6:51; Ephesians 5:2.
This verse is not saying that Jesus never changed from spiritual body to physical body and then again to spiritual body; we know that he did go through those changes. While he was in the days of his flesh (Hebrews 5:7), Jesus did not possess the glory of the spiritual body that he had when he was with his God and Father before the world of mankind was made through him. (John 1:1,10; 17:1,3,5; 1 Corinthians 15:40) While in the days of his flesh (Hebrews 5:7); he did have the bodily glory of a sinless human being who never once sinned. (John 1:14; Romans 3:23; 2 Corinthians 5:21; Hebrews 2:9; 10:5; 1 Peter 2:21,22) Since he sacrificed his glory as a human for sin, he is no longer a human being, a little lower than the angels, but now possesses he bodily glory that is above the angels. — Colossians 2:9,10; Ephesians 1:3,17-23; Hebrews 1:4; 1 Peter 3:22.
We know that Jesus did change, as far as plane of existence is concerned. He was “made” or “became” flesh — a little lower than the angels. The point the author of Hebrews is making here is that the teachings of Jesus Christ are now the same as when they were first taught, and will continue the same forever, and we most certainly should imitate his faith. Read verses 7-9 carefully. We are told to “Remember your leaders, men who spoke to you the word of God, and considering the results of their conduct, imitate their faith.” Then, suddenly, we are reminded: Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. It is a reminder of a greater exemplar than the ones just spoken of.
Yes, Jesus proved himself unchangeable, not only in his faithfulness to his God, but in full and total obedience to God in every detail. (Hebrews 3:2; 4:15) Jesus was not only faithful, however, as a human, but also before his becoming a human. (Proverbs 8:22-30) This does not mean that Jesus was/is his God to whom he was faithful.
What about the claim that the expression “the same yesterday, today, and forever” means that Jesus was not created, that he was “begotten in eternity”? The word ‘yesterday” actually contradicts the idea of duration without beginning, or existence outside of time. A yesterday simply reflects a day before the present day. But a day has a beginning; so has a yesterday. A day, in the Bible as well in everyday speech, does not always mean a 24-hour day based on the rotation of the earth. The word “day” sometimes signifies an indefinite time, or a set period of time. (Genesis 2:4; Isaiah 22:5; 2 Corinthians 6:2; Hebrews 3:8, etc.) The yesterday, and today spoken of in the verse are periods of time.
The Greek word translated “forever” literally means “to the ages” (Young’s Literal Translation). This latter expression relates to all ages to come, and does express future eternity in that sense. But in relation to the ages to come, “today” would refer to the Gospel age, the age we are now in, the day of salvation for the church. (2 Corinthians 6:2) Earlier in the book of Hebrews Paul contrasts the present “day” with that of the Israelites. (Hebrews 3:7,13; 4:7) Thus “yesterday” in this context would refer to the Jewish Age. (Isaiah 65:2; Romans 10:21; Hebrews 4:7-10) Whether this application is correct or not, there is nothing in the word “yesterday” that means an eternal past. Indeed, many trinitarian scholars reach similar conclusions regarding Hebrews 13:8.
Jesus never changed in his faithful obedience toward his God, and this is what is being discussed in context. Jesus is our greatest exemplar of faith, since he never once disobeyed God, and he always was faithful to his God and Father, the only true God, even more so than was Moses, who is listed amongst the men of faith that we are to imitate in faith. — Hebrews 3:2; 11:4-12:3; 13:7-9.
What we do not find is anything in Hebrews 13:8 that designates Jesus as being uncreated; we certainly find nothing that designates Jesus as being the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, or that Jesus is a person of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, or that the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob exists as more than one person, etc. Indeed, such ideas have to be added to, and read into, what is stated.
Ronald R. Day, Sr.
Restoration Light Bible Study Services
(RLBible, ResLight)
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