Deuteronomy 32:8,9 - Elyon, Jehovah, and the Trinity

Deuteronomy 32:8,9 is sometimes cited by trinitarians as an Old Testament reference to their triune God philosophy. Their thought apparently is that "Most High" [transliterated from the Masoretic text as ELYON] in verse 8 is supposed to refer to one person of their triune God, and "Jehovah" [transliterated from the Masoretic text] in verse 9 is evidently supposed to refer to another person of their triune God. 

Deuteronomy 32:8 - When the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance, When he separated the children of men, He set the bounds of the peoples According to the number of the children of Israel.
Deuteronomy 32:9 - For Jehovah's portion is his people; Jacob is the lot of his inheritance. -- American Standard Version. 

Deuteronomy 32:8 - When the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance, when he divided mankind, he fixed the borders of the peoples according to the number of the sons of God.
Deuteronomy 32:9 - But [Jehovah*]'s portion is his people, Jacob his allotted heritage. -- English Standard Version, *edited to present God's Holy Name as "Jehovah".

We should note that the manuscripts do show a slight disagreement in reading in verse 8. The Masoretic text reads "sons of Israel" while a reading from one of the Dead Sea Scrolls reads "sons of God". Some apparently claim that "the expression sons of God" refers to the angels or to all the descendants of Adam. Actually, the children of Israel are referred to as sons of Jehovah in Deuteronomy 14:1, thus, it is more than likely that "sons of God" in verse 8 and "his people" of verse 9 are both one and the same. We believe that to be the most logical reasoning related to this, and thus the default understanding.

Nevertheless, some appear to read into this that the "Most High" [Elyon] is used in reference to the "sons of Adam" while "Jehovah" is used only in reference to the children of Israel. From this, it appears that they further claim that "Most High" refers to their alleged "God the Father" -- the assumed "first person" of their imagined triune God -- while "Jehovah" is claimed to be the second person of their imagined and assumed triune God. Of course, the idea of a triune God is not actually there or anywhere else in the entire Bible. The idea has to be assumed beyond what is stated and other assumptions have to be created, and these have to be added to and read into what is stated in order to "see" their triune God in Deuteronomy 32:8,9.

Some wish to make it appear that "Jehovah" in Deuteronomy 32:9 is Jesus and claim that Jesus is the God of Israel, while another person of the triune God is the God of the other nations. This, in effect, would mean that God who spoke through the prophets of the Old Testament is Jesus, which should make one wonder who is the son of Jesus as spoken of in Hebrews 1:1,2. The reality is that Jehovah in the Old Testament is the God and Father of Jesus. It was the God and Father of Jesus (Micah 5:4; Ephesians 1:3; 1 Peter 1:3) who spoke through Moses and foretold that the Messiah was to be a prophet like Moses. (Deuteronomy 18:15-19; Acts 3:13-26) Thus, Jesus is the "Son" through whom Jehovah now speaks. -- Deuteronomy 18:15-19; John 14:10,24; 17:1,8,24; Hebrews 1:1,2.

The scriptural conclusion is that Elyon and Jehovah are the same person. We find many scriptures in the Old Testament where ELYON is used as a title of Jehovah, the God of the Messiah (Isaiah 61:1,2; Micah 5:4). -- Numbers 2416; 1 Samuel 2.10; 2 Samuel 22.14; 23.1; Psalms 7.8, 10, 17; 9.2; 21.7; 46.4; 47.2; 50.14; 57.2; 73.11; 77.10; 78.17, 35, 56; 83.18; 87.5; 91.1,9; 92.1; 97.9; 107.11; Lamentations 3.35, 38; Daniel 3.26; 4.2, 17, 25, 32, 34; 5.18, 21; 7.18, 22, 25; Hosea 7.16.

There is no scriptural reason at all to think that ELYON in Deuteronomy 32:8 is not JEHOVAH of Deuteronomy 32:9. There is definitely nothing in either verse or anywhere else in the Bible that says that God is more than one person. 

1x1x1 and the Trinity Doctrine

The image presented is evidently directed to Muslims. This site is not owned by a Muslim, but by a Christian who does not believe in adding the trinity doctrine to the Bible.

Nevertheless, many professed Christians have accepted the added-on trinity doctrine, and under the guise of orthodoxy, they claim that the trinity doctrine is the central essential doctrine of Christianity, despite the fact that no such concept is anywhere to be found in the Holy Bible. T

Nevertheless, trinitarians have been disclaiming that 1+1+1=1 applies to their added-on trinitarian concept, and would have one believe that the trinity is actually represented as 1x1x1=1.

Does 1x1x1-1 actually represent what is claimed for the trinity doctrine? And even if it did, does this mean that the trinity doctrine is true?

We first wish to note that while we believe the trinity doctrine is illogical, that is not the basic reason for rejecting that doctrine. The Christian who believes in the Bible should reject that doctrine because no such concept is even once found anywhere in the "faith once delivered to the saints". The concept has to be formulated beyond what is actually found in the Bible and then many supporting extra-Biblical assumptions have also to be formulated to allow one to "see" the triune God concept in the Bible. 

The Bible consistently presents the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as being only one person. The Bible never once presents the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as being more than one person.

The trinitarian often states that Jesus is the God of the Old Testament. Thus they would claim that Jehovah of the Old Testament is Jesus. Since this does not harmonize with many scriptures in the Old Testament they have to call upon their imagined assumption that Jehovah is more than one person, and thus they would imagine, assume, add to and read into many of the scriptures, that Jehovah is being presented as being only one person who is the God and Father of the Jesus, but that in most other places it is referring only one person who is the Son of the God and Father of Jesus. The influence of indoctrination, however, often blinds the trinitarian to the fact that he is actually adding all these assumptions to the Bible in order to accommodate a concept that is not once presented in the Bible. 

The default scriptural reasoning should be that Jehovah is only one person who is the God and Father of the Messiah. -- Isaiah 61:1,2; Micah 5:4; John 17:1,3; Ephesians 1:3.

Nevertheless, we believe the mathematical formula of 1x1x1=1 to be a mathematical deception that does not actually apply to what is claimed for the trinity doctrine.

However, the terminology that trinitarians use in presenting their triune God concept would not be described as multiplication, it would be with an addition equation 1 person + 1 person + 1 person = 1 God. Mathematically this would make each person 1/3 of God, not each wholly and fully the one God as is claimed by the trinitarians. Thus, the trinitarian has come up with the mathematical deception that 1 person x 1 person x 1 person = 1 God. 

Some scriptures are presented in the image.

Although 1 John 5:7 as it reads in the Masoretic Text is probably not what John wrote, still there is nothing even in the Textus Receptus of this verse that presents any concept that the "one God" of whom are all (1 Corinthians 8:6) is more than one person. See our links to studies related to 1 John 5:7.

Likewise, in Matthew 28:18-20, we find nothing about God being three persons.

The "one God" from whom are all, being the source of all, has certainly given to his Son all authority (as well as all power). This does not mean that we need to imagine and assume that God's Son became God Almighty because God Almighty gave to him this authority and power. -- 1 Corinthians 15:27; Ephesians 1:3,17-23. See our study: "All Power".

The name, probably referring to authority or purpose, is distributed in three applications in Matthew 28:19. We definitely find nothing in Matthew 28:19 that presents the God of Abraham, Isaac as being more than one person, or as three persons etc. See our links to studies related to Matthew 28:19.

Jesus, standing in the might of his God (Isaiah 11:1-3; Micah 5:4), certainly has received from his God the power to be present in more than one place at the same time.

Jesus' Transfiguration and Baptism

It is being claimed that both at the Transfiguration of Jesus on Mount Tabor, and at the Baptism of Jesus in the Jordan, the Holy Spirit appears, and the voice of the Father utters from heaven that Jesus is His beloved Son, in whom He is well-pleased. It is further claimed that these in these scriptures that are explicit in saying that God is three persons, one in essence and undivided. In context, this is being offered as proof that the Bible writers presented God as being three persons. Yet, in reality, in harmony with the Bible as a whole, we find nothing in the scriptural reference to Jesus' transfiguration or his baptism that presents the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob as being three persons.

Transfiguration of Jesus

"The Transfiguration"
by Dore

The transfiguration of Jesus is recorded in Matthew 17:1–8, Mark 9:2–8, Luke 9:28–36 and Peter refers to it in 2 Peter 1:16-18. In none of these scriptures, however, do we find the God of Israel is presented as three persons. Any such idea has to be added to, and read into, these scriptures. We do find that the voice of Jesus' God (Micah 5:4; Ephesians 1:3; 1 Peter 1:3) was heard, and many would imagine and assume that the cloud spoken of is God's Holy Spirit, but nothing at all is said about Jesus, the voice of this Father and the cloud as all being persons of the same one God of whom are all. Indeed, 1 Corinthians 8:6 identifies only one person as being the one God of all, and Jesus is distinguished from being that "one God" since Paul speaks of Jesus as being the "one lord" through whom are all. Jesus further distinguishes himself from being the only true God in John 17:1,3, where he identifies his God and Father (Ephesians 1:3) as being that only true God, and then, in effect, shows that he is not the "only true God" by saying that "the only true God' who had sent him. The "only true God" in John 1:13 thus corresponds with the Lord Jehovah of Isaiah 61:1, and the Messiah includes himself when referring to the Lord Jehovah as "our God [Elohim]" in Isaiah 61:2. This corresponds to Micah 5:4, where Jehovah is depicted as being the God [Elohim] of the Messiah.

The Baptism of Jesus

Jesus' baptism is recorded in Matthew 3:13-16; Mark 1:9-13; Luke 3:21,22; and John 1:32-34. In none of these scriptures do we find that the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is being presented as being three persons. As with the transfiguration, the trinity concept has to be formulated beyond what is written, added to what is written and read into what is written. These scriptures do speak of Jesus, and the voice of Jesus' God and Father and it speaks of God's Spirit descending like a dove. Nothing, however, is said about these three as being the "one God" of whom are all, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Nothing said about God Almighty being three persons. Indeed, Acts 3:13; 1 Corinthians 8:6, and Hebrews 1:1,2 identify only one person as being the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and Isaiah 61:1,2; Micah 5:4; John 17:1,3; Acts 3:13-26; Ephesians 1:3,17-26; 1 Peter 1:3 all identify that one person as being the God and Father of Jesus.

Finally, Matthew 28:19 is added to this, as though this verse is speaking of triune God. We have discussed Matthew 28:19 elsewhere, and will not spend too much time on this here.

There is definitely nothing in Matthew 28:19 that presents the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as being three persons; again the idea has to be presumed beyond what is stated, added to what is stated, and read into what is stated. Baptizing in the name of, in the authority of the God and Father of Jesus, and in the name, in the authority of, of the one whom the one God sent, and in the name, the authority, of the Holy Spirit of the one God, does not at all designate the three as all being the "one God" of whom are all. 

Is there anything in any of these verses that "are explicit in saying that God is three persons, one in essence and undivided"? Actually, there is nothing at all in any of the verses that is explicitly presenting the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as being "three persons." Indeed, rather than there being anything that explicitly presents such a concept. the concept has to be created beyond what is stated and many assumptions have to be formulated beyond what is stated which have to be added to, and read into, what is actually stated in order to make the scriptures appear to be speaking of three persons all of whom are the "one God" of whom are all, etc.  Imagining and assuming that what has to be imagined and assumed is "explicit" is certainly not sound reasoning.

By Ronald R. Day, Sr.

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2 Corinthians 13:14 - Did Paul Present a Triune God?

2 Corinthians 13:14 -  The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Spirit, be with you all.  -- American Standard Version.

The grace (favor and spiritual blessing) of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the presence and fellowship (the communion and sharing together, and participation) in the Holy Spirit be with you all. Amen (so be it). -- Amplified Bible.

This verse is often cited as proof of the trinity. Does it, in fact, present God as being three persons?

We do find in this verse that "Lord Jesus Christ" is mentioned; we also find that "God" is referred in the expression "love of God," and we do find that the Holy Spirit is mentioned. Many of our trinitarian neighbors may claim, "There you have the trinity." According to the "Pulpit Commentary," this verse "is alone sufficient to prove the doctrine of the Trinity."  And yet, do we find any such thought presented by the apostle Paul in this verse?

Three things are spoken of: grace, love and fellowship, and these three things are related to the Lord Jesus Christ, God, and the Holy Spirit respectively, but does Paul identify these three as being one God?  Obviously not. 

Paul ends his letter by reflecting his personal experience with the grace of the Lord Jesus (2 Corinthians 12:9), and wishes all the brothers of Christ in Corinth to have such grace. The same principle we are sure he would apply to all who belong to Christ everywhere and at all times. However, he does not in any way present the Lord Jesus Christ as being one of three persons, all of whom are alleged to be the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

Some may claim that "Lord" in the expression "Lord Jesus Christ" designates Jesus as being Jehovah. The Lord Jesus Christ" designates "Jesus", not as being God or a person of God, but as the one whom the God has anointed and made "lord". -- Psalm 2:26; 45:7; Isaiah 61:1; Ezekiel 34:23,24; John 10:29; 17:1,3; Acts 2:23,36; 4:27; 10:38; Hebrews 1:9.

Likewise, the apostle speaks of communion or fellowship in, or possibly through, the Holy Spirit. Elsewhere, Paul refers to the Holy Spirit as "the Holy Spirit of God". (Ephesians 4:30) Obviously, "God" in this expression is only referring to one person, not three persons, and the Holy Spirit is the spoken of as belonging to that one person. Related to this, in the expression "spirit of God" found many times throughout the Bible refers to only one person to whom the "spirit" belongs.

The word "God" appears only once in the verse in the phrase "love of God."  Paul is obviously referring to only one person as "God," the same one person presented as "God"  in 2 Corinthians 1:19: 2:14; 3:4; 4:4 (2nd instance); 5:18; 11:31.  The default reasoning is to realize that Paul is referring to God in 2 Corinthians 13:14 as being the same one person who is "God" in 2 Corinthians 13:4, where we read that Jesus "lives through the power of God [one person]." 

The truth is that any thought of a triune God has to be imagined, assumed, added to, and read into, what Paul wrote in 2 Corinthians 13:14, as is true with any scripture presented to allegedly "prove" the trinity doctrine.

Matthew 3:16,17 - Was There a Triune God at Jesus' Baptism?

Is the Trinity a Biblical Doctrine?

According to many trinitarians, "the trinity is a Biblical doctrine," and the trinity dogma is presented as allegedly stating what the Bible says. In reality, there is absolutely no concept of a trinity presented anywhere at all in the Bible. The idea has to be added to, and read into, each and every scripture that is presented to allegedly support the added-on dogma.

Yes, the trinitarians present an array of scriptures, both from the Hebrew "Old Testament" Scriptures as well as the Christian "New Testament Scriptures to allegedly support their dogma. Upon close examination, however, one has to realize that in each and every scripture that is presented, what the trinitarian relies on is a presupposition that will see "trinity" when the scriptures are read. Closer examination of the scriptures reveal how the trinity has to be added to and read into each and every scripture presented.

The truth is that the scriptures can be seen to be totally and fully harmonious without adding the trinitarian philosophy to the Bible.

"It must be admitted by everyone who has the rudiments of an historical sense that the doctrine of the Trinity, as a doctrine, formed no part of the original message. St Paul knew it not, and would have been unable to understand the meaning of the terms used in the theological formula on which the Church ultimately agreed".

Dr. W R Matthews, Dean of St Paul's Cathedral,
"God in Christian Thought and Experience", p.180

My belief in the Trinity is based on the authority of the Church: no other authority is sufficient. I will now show from reason, that the Athanasian Creed and the Scripture are opposed to one another.

"Rev." James Hughes, Roman Catholic Priest,
As quoted in Percy White's The Doctrine of the Trinity (1913.)

In other words, this Roman Catholic Priest begins by saying that he believes in the trinity, not because he can find in the Bible, but because he accepts as authority the word of men who claim such authority. This, in effect, denies that the faith was fully delivered in the first century. -- Jude 1:3

Nevertheless, the Catholics appear to be more honest regarding this than the Protestant trinitarians who insist the Bible teaches the trinitarian concept. However, none of the protestant trinitarian apologists ever actually give any scripture in the Bible where that concept is taught. They do present many scriptures that one may, with an imagination bent towards the preconceived trinitarian concept, create assumptions beyond what is written so as to "see" the trinity in those scriptures. In effect, what they actually present as being "Biblical proof" of the trinity is what has to be imagined, assumed, added to, and read into the scriptures they present, and then it has to be further imagined and assumed that what has been imagined and assumed is what the scriptures mean.

The fact is that, despite how many scriptures are presented to allegedly support the trinity dogma. not one scripture in the Bible ever presents the concept of a triune God. Not one scripture ever once presents the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jaocb as being more than one person. Not one scripture presents Jesus as being a person of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Such a concept has to be based on what is thought beyond what is actually written, and assumptions have to be created beyond what is written, and then the imagined assumptions have to be added to, and read into, what is actually stated in any scripture that is alleged to "teach" the triune God concept.

See also our study: Jesus is not Jehovah

Related Books and Aids

Genesis 1:26 - "Let us" and the Trinity - c

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Genesis 1:26; Genesis 3:22, Genesis 11:7 and Isaiah 6:8 have been presented as allegedly being proof of the plurality of persons who are claimed to make up the triune God. Regarding Genesis 1:26; Genesis 11:7 and Isaiah 6:8, Walter Martin (Kingdom of the Cults, page 82) claims that the "plurality" of these verses are speaking of Trinity. Let us examine these verses to see if this is so.

Genesis 1:26 - God said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the sky, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."

We find nothing at all in this verse about there being a God consisting of three persons; any such thought has to imagined, assumed, added to, and read into, what “God” said here. Evidently, the unipersonal “God”, in saying “Let us,” is speaking to someone else. By comparing spiritual with spiritual, we conclude that he was speaking to His Son here, but that does not mean that we need to imagine and assume that His Son is a person of God Himself. If I say to my son, “Let’s build our house according to our plans,” I am not saying that my son is person of myself.

Jesus was evidently of a celestial glory (1 Corinthians 15:40,41) higher than the angels before he became flesh, but that does not mean that he did not have the image of his God and Father before he became flesh. While in the days of his flesh (Hebrews 5:7), he possessed a sinless glory of God (Romans 3:23) -- a little lower than the angels -- which glory he offered up in sacrifice for sin. -- Hebrews 2:9, 9:26,28; 10:5; 13:11.

Regarding Genesis 3:22, see our study:
One of Us

Genesis 11:7 Come, let's go down, and there confuse their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.

Again, if I say to my son, "Come, let’s go shopping as we had planned," I am not saying that my son is a person of myself; since this is along the same line as Genesis 2:6, see what I have said earlier regarding that scripture. God certainly did not say that He was more than one person; one has to call upon the spirit of human imagination and read such a thought into what God stated.

Isaiah 6:8 And I heard the voice of the Lord, saying: "Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?" Then I said: "Here am I; send me."

A trinitarian argues, evidently by applying the spirit of human imagination, that Isaiah heard the voice of God, and that God is referring to himself as more than one person.

One claims that the words attributed to God in Isaiah 6:8 were said in eternity. Obviously, there is nothing in Isaiah 6:8 about these words being said in eternity past. Such an idea has to be added to and read into what Isaiah said. Following such reasoning, one would conclude that Isaiah had been hearing these words in eternity past, and thus that Isaiah himself had existed in eternity past so as to be hearing these words in eternity past.

If applied prophetically to the church, it is more reasonable to conclude that Isaiah himself is playing a part in the exemplary prophetic role, depicting the church of Jesus who was yet to be. Each believer is depicted as hearing the voice of the Lord Jesus, asking, "Whom shall I send?", and thus is depicted as responding: "Here am I."

The Masoretic text has the word often transliterated as "Adonai" where "the Lord" appears in Isaiah 6:8. The claim has been made that this is one of the places copyists replaced Jehovah with Adonai, and thus some translations have the holy name in the scripture. However, we find that the Great Isaiah Scroll does not have the Holy Name in Isaiah 6:8, but rather the Hebrew characters representing what would b transliterated from the Masoretic text as Adoni [my Lord] or Adonai [Literally, my Lords, used singularly, as a plural intensive, as a superlative or superior "Lord" -- without any vowel points added, both words appear the same in the original Hebrew]. At any rate, it is probable, as some have suggested, that Isaiah originally meant this to be "my Lord", referring to the coming Lord of Isaiah [Isaiah is possibly being used to represent the Christian believer], that is, Jesus, the promised Messiah. In such a case, the words in question, who will go for us, are those of Jesus directed toward Jehovah. The "us" refers to both Jehovah and Jesus. The one to "go" for them would be Isaiah (being a figure of the church members individually). The fulfillment of the prophecy supports that 'the Lord' in Isaiah 6:8 is not Jehovah but Jesus, the one whom Jehovah anointed (made christ) as our Lord. -- Isaiah 61:1; Acts 2:36; 20:21.

What we do not find in those words is any thought that Jehovah is a triune God of three persons. It is being claimed that the word "Elohim" and the pronoun “us” are plural forms, and these rare "definitely referring in the Hebrew language to more than two." It is further claimed the word ELOHIM denotes "the aspect of plurality in God." The plurality of ELOHIM means “gods”, thus any thought along this line would mean that Jehovah is more than one God. Two Gods? Definitely not! Although “us” certainly refers to more than one, ELOHIM most definitely refers to only one who is ELOHIM. Genesis 1:26 – God [ELOHIM] said [singular verb], “Let us make [plural] man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the sky, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” The verb that corresponds with ELOHIM is not plural in the Hebrew text, but it is singular. The verb that corresponds with US is plural in the Hebrew text, which is correct, since the Singular “God” was speaking to someone else who was not Himself.

Genesis 3:22 Jehovah God said [singular verb in Hebrew], "Behold, the man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil. Now, lest he put forth his hand, and also take of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever..."

Again in Genesis 3:22, we find that a singular verb is used relating to ELOHIM, not a plural verb. The “Lexical Aids to the Old Testament” that appears in Key Study Bibles, notes this concerning ELOHIM.

This mas. Hebr. noun is pl. in form, but it has both sing. and pl. uses. In a pl. sense it refers to rulers or judges with divine connections (Ex. 21:6); pagan gods (Ex. 18:11; Ps. 86:8); and probably angels (Ps. 8:5; 97:7). In both of the passages where “angels” is the apparent meaning, it is so translated in the Sept... In the singular sense it is used of a god or a goddess (1 Sam. 5:7; 2 Kgs. 18:34); a man in a position like a god (Ex. 7:1); God (Duet. 7:9; Ezra 1:3; Is. 45:18 and many other OT passages).... It usually takes a sing. verb so no implication of any plurality of the divine nature can be inferred from the fact that the word is plural. -- page 1598 in the King James Hebrew -Greek Key Word Study Bible, edited by Spiros Zodhiates.

The fact is, that ELOHIM, when used in a singular setting, that is, when the verb and/or pronouns, etc., in context are singular, ELOHIM is used as what many linguists call a "plural intensive," "honorific plural", or "majestic plural", that is, the word, although it is plural in form, is singular in usage to denote something similar to a superior or superlative usage.

See: http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/hebrew/kjv/elohiym.html

Since the plurality of ELOHIM means “gods”, not persons, there definitely is nothing in that word that would connect with a triune God, not unless one would think that Jehovah is Gods, more than one Mighty One.

RELATED STUDIES:

Let Us and Elohim
Genesis 1:26,27 - Who is God Speaking To?
Elohim - Does This Word Indicate a Plurality of Persons in a Godhead?
Genesis 3:22 - One of Us

Isaiah 9:6 and The Deity of Jesus

Trinitarian False Definition of Christian

Jesus is not the Most High