* Amos 4:11 – When God Overthrew Sodom

“I have overthrown some of you, As when God [Hebrew, ELOHIM] overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah, And you were like a burning stick plucked out of the fire; Yet you have not returned to me,” says Jehovah. — Amos 4:11, Restoration Light Improved Version.

This scripture is often cited as proof that Jehovah is more than one person. The claim by some trinitarians is that in some vague manner two persons of their trinitarian philosophy are represented in this scripture. According to one trinitarian: “One must assume that the speaker is the Lord Jesus Christ and that the overthrow of Sodom and Gomorrah was a judgment of the whole Godhead.” It is true that some kind of assumption needs to be made; it is not true that one “must” assume that the speaker is Lord Jesus Christ, nor that Jesus is a person of an alleged “Godhead” of persons, etc.

Indeed, the trinitarian dogma is imagined, assumed and then placed into the scripture;. Without the added assumptions that are based on the added-on trinitarian dogma, the idea of more than one person in Jehovah is not seen in the scripture. Thus, what is presented as proof of the trinity in Amos 4:11 -- as is true throughout the Bible -- is not the scripture itself, but rather what has to be imagined, assumed, added to, and read into, in the scripture in order to make the scripture appear to support the added-on dogma.

The speaker is directly identified as Jehovah, not Jesus. We have shown elsewhere that on several occasions Bible personages refer to themselves in the third person, even as many orientals and others sometimes do to this very day. Jehovah does this also as recorded in Exodus 3:12; 24:1 and Exodus 19:1,2. This appears to be a method of emphasis. Jehovah is simply identifying himself as the God of Israel who overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah. This can be seen from Amos 4:12,13: “Therefore thus will I do to you, Israel; Because I will do this to you, Prepare to meet your God, Israel. For, behold, he who forms the mountains, And creates the wind, And declares to man what is his thought; Who makes the morning darkness, And treads on the high places of the Earth: Jehovah, the God of hosts, is his name.” From this we can see that the God who overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah is none other than Jehovah, the God of hosts, the God of Israel.

We need to remember that Amos himself was writing this book in address to Israel. With this in mind, another view presented by some is that Amos is quoting Jehovah indirectly, and refers back to the Pentateuch with references to God in the third person. This view is stated by James Coffman:

Some critics make a big thing out of God being referred to in this verse (Amos 4:11) in the third person, whereas, the first person is otherwise prominent throughout; but this is not due to any interpolation, and only signifies that Amos unconsciously reverted to quotations from the Pentateuch in mentioning Sodom and Gomorrah, as anyone familiar with the Bible would have done.
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Coffman, James Burton. “Commentary on Amos 4”. “Coffman Commentaries on the Old and New Testament”.
http://www.studylight.org/com/bcc/view.cgi?book=am&chapter=004.
Abilene Christian University Press, Abilene, Texas, USA. 1983-1999.

Still remembering that it is Amos who is delivering the message to Israel, another way of looking at the scripture is that Amos interjected the thought parenthetically. We need to remember that there was no punctuation in the Hebrew. With this thought, the verse could be read as: “I have overthrown some of you,” — (As when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah) — “And you were like a burning stick plucked out of the fire; Yet you haven’t returned to me,” says Jehovah. From this standpoint, it would be understood as the prophet himself interjected the point while quoting Jehovah.

Regardless, the idea that this offers proof of the trinity depends on accepting belief in the trinity to begin with and then using circular reasoning to say that because one believes this is speaking of the trinity, then this is proof of the trinity. In actuality, there is nothing in this scripture that offers any proof of the trinity or plurality of persons in the Almighty God, and it offers no reason for adding to the scriptures a story about three persons in God.

Upon further investigation, we have added some more thoughts at:

Amos 4:11 – Does This Speak of Two Jehovahs?

Job 19:25 - Job's Redeemer and the Messiah

Job 19:25 But as for me, I know that my Redeemer lives.(a) In the end, he will stand [arise, be established - same word used in Deuteronomy 18:18(b)] upon the earth.
Job 19:26 After my skin is destroyed, Then in my flesh shall I see God,
Job 19:27 Whom I, even I, shall see on my side. My eyes shall see, and not as a stranger.  "My heart is consumed within me."
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(a) http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/hebrew/kjv/quwm.html
(b) http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/hebrew/kjv/chay.html

Some quote Job 19:25 and claim that this speaking of Jesus, and that since Jehovah is spoke of redeemer in the Old Testament, this is alleged to prove that Jesus is Jehovah.

First we need to note that there is nothing in these verses that give any indication that Jehovah is more than one person; there is nothing stated to the effect that Jesus is Jehovah. There is definitely nothin in these verses or any other verses in the Bible that depict Jehovah as being more than one person, as claimed by trinitarians. Any such thoughts have to be assumed and read into what is being stated.

Job later stated to Jehovah: "now my eye sees you." (Job 42:5) No man can actually see the substance of God Himself and live; Job had not physically seen the substance of God, thus he was speaking of seeing with his mental eyes, his understanding.

Job expresses that he knows that His redeemer lives; this statement has been variously interpreted. If Job was referring to Jehovah (Yahweh) as his redeemer, yes, his redeemer was then living. Jesus, also, was then living with his God and Father in heaven (John 17:5), but we do not know that such knowledge was revealed to Job.

We should remember that Hebrew verbs do not represent time tense, as do verbs in most of our modern languages, such as English. Additionally, Job, more than likely, had heard of God's promise of a redeemer, seed of the woman (Genesis 3:15), the seed of Abraham, who was to deliver mankind and bring forth the blessings of all the nations. (Genesis 28:14) Thus, if Job was speaking of the coming redeemer, Job expresses that he knows that his redeemer will live, in the future. At the time that Job spoke the words recorded in Job 19, he had not yet heard and seen that which God later spoke to him. Yet, by faith, he looked forward to the coming time when his redeemer would come and be established upon the earth. Jesus did come in these latter times (Hebrews 1:2) and he physically stood upon the earth back in what we today call the first century AD. Having now sacrificed his body of flesh for our sins (Hebrews 10:10; 1 Peter 3:18), we have no reason to believe that Jesus will physically stand upon the earth again with such a body of flesh, although it is possible that he could do similarly to way that angels appeared a "men" at various times. Job, however believed that even though his flesh be destroyed, he would yet in his flesh be able to see God.

Some may object that since Job uses the present tense, that this could not apply to then yet coming Messiah, and that Job did not have knowledge that Jesus was then existing. As already noted, Biblical Hebrew does not have tenses; in English, however, we express practically everything with verbs as related to time. Biblical Hebrew does not do this. Thus, Job could have been have been speaking of the one yet to come, in whom was life, a life that could be given to God for the deliverance of mankind from the condemnation of death. -- John 1:4; Matthew 20:28; Mark 10:45; Ephesians 5:2.

Young's translation renders Isaiah 11:6-9:

6 And a wolf hath sojourned with a lamb, And a leopard with a kid doth lie down, And calf, and young lion, and fatling [are] together, And a little youth is leader over them. 7 And cow and bear do feed, Together lie down their young ones, And a lion as an ox eateth straw. 8 And played hath a suckling by the hole of an asp, And on the den of a cockatrice Hath the weaned one put his hand. 9 Evil they do not, nor destroy in all My holy mountain, For full hath been the earth with the knowledge of Jehovah, As the waters are covering the sea.

However, most translators put this in the future tense:

6 And the wolf shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. 7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together; and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. 8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the adder's den. 9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain; for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of Jehovah, as the waters cover the sea. -- American Standard Version.

However, it is possible that Job was speaking of Jehovah as being the Redeemer; if so, we certainly should not expect that Jehovah Himself will physically stand on the earth, and that people will be able to look upon the Most High. (Exodus 33:20; John 1:18) In Exodus 17:6, Jehovah used the same Hebrew word for "stand" as Job used in Job 19:25. Jehovah said to Moses: "Behold, I will stand before thee there upon the rock in Horeb; and thou shalt smite the rock, and there shall come water out of it, that the people may drink." (ASV) Was Jehovah there in some physical body standing before Moses? No, we have no reason to think so; but we would should rather reason that by "stand" Jehovah meant His invisible spiritual presence.

Nevertheless, God is the redeemer in the sense that he is source of redemption, and He will certainly become established throughout the whole earth in that the knowledge of His glory will indeed fill the earth. Jehovah redeems man by means of his son, who is to deliver man out of the condition of sin and back into harmony with God. With such redemption, one can then "see" God, that is, mentally comprehend things pertaining to God which he could not otherwise comprehend. Job knew that such comprehension would come when he is raised in the day of the resurrection..