John 10:38 - But if I do them, though you don't believe me, believe the works; that
you may know and believe that the Father is in me, and I in the Father. -- World English
John 14:10 - Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I tell you, I speak not from myself; but the Father who lives in me does his works.
John 14:11 - Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me; or else believe me for the very works’ sake. -- World English.
Compare John 14:20; 15:7; 17:21; 1 John 2:5,6,27,28; 3:6,24; 4:13,15; 5:20
The scriptures quoted above are often cited as proof of the trinity, and/or as proof that Jesus is God (the Supreme Being). The truth is that there is nothing here that presents the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as being more than one person, or that presents Jesus as being the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. As usual, such concepts have to be imagined beyond what is written (1 Corinthians 4:6), and then supported by assumptions (which is often presented as dogma) that have to be added to, and read into, what is stated.
Jesus identified his Father as being the only true God who -- before his son became flesh -- sent his son to become flesh. -- John 1;10,14; 17:1,3. This should settle the matter. Alas, however, many who wish to hold onto man's creeds do not do so.
Nevertheless, the trinitarian likes to "see" his trinitarian dogma in the scriptures presented, but he to do this, he has to be inconsistent in his application of scripture. What do we mean?
While Jesus did speak of his God being in him and his being in his God, he also said that he is in his disciples and his disciples are him him. (John 14:20; 15:5) Does this mean that we should imagine and assume that the followers of Jesus become God Almighty, as it is presumed that Jesus is God Almighty?
Jesus prayed that his followers be in him and his Father. (John 17:21) If consistent with they way many interpret the scriptures being discussed, one would think that Jesus was praying for his followers to become God Almighty!
John wrote that Jesus' followers are in God, and God is in them. (1 John 3:24; 4:13,15,16) Again, it the one is consistent with the claim the Father's being in Jesus means that Jesus is God Almighty, then one should also think that Jesus' followers are God Almighty!
If the trinitarian is consistent in his application, then he would also have to recognize all of Jesus' true followers as being persons of God. Our oneness friends would have to recognize all of Jesus' followers as being God Almighty!
Additionally, we read that "Satan entered into Judas" (Luke 22:3). Does this mean that Judas became a person of Satan? We don't know of anyone who would think such. Judas, however, did lend himself to the influence of Satan so as to do the work of Satan. Likewise, Jesus explained that the words he spoke were not his own, but that he spoke the words of his Father (the only true God -- John 17:1,3) who was living in him. This agrees with Paul's words of 1 Corinthians 8:6, as well as with the entire rest of the Bible. There is no scriptural reason to imagine and assume the trinitarian assumptions and read such assumptions into what Jesus stated.
John 14:10 - Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I tell you, I speak not from myself; but the Father who lives in me does his works.
John 14:11 - Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me; or else believe me for the very works’ sake. -- World English.
Compare John 14:20; 15:7; 17:21; 1 John 2:5,6,27,28; 3:6,24; 4:13,15; 5:20
Jesus identified his Father as being the only true God who -- before his son became flesh -- sent his son to become flesh. -- John 1;10,14; 17:1,3. This should settle the matter. Alas, however, many who wish to hold onto man's creeds do not do so.
Nevertheless, the trinitarian likes to "see" his trinitarian dogma in the scriptures presented, but he to do this, he has to be inconsistent in his application of scripture. What do we mean?
While Jesus did speak of his God being in him and his being in his God, he also said that he is in his disciples and his disciples are him him. (John 14:20; 15:5) Does this mean that we should imagine and assume that the followers of Jesus become God Almighty, as it is presumed that Jesus is God Almighty?
Jesus prayed that his followers be in him and his Father. (John 17:21) If consistent with they way many interpret the scriptures being discussed, one would think that Jesus was praying for his followers to become God Almighty!
John wrote that Jesus' followers are in God, and God is in them. (1 John 3:24; 4:13,15,16) Again, it the one is consistent with the claim the Father's being in Jesus means that Jesus is God Almighty, then one should also think that Jesus' followers are God Almighty!
If the trinitarian is consistent in his application, then he would also have to recognize all of Jesus' true followers as being persons of God. Our oneness friends would have to recognize all of Jesus' followers as being God Almighty!
Additionally, we read that "Satan entered into Judas" (Luke 22:3). Does this mean that Judas became a person of Satan? We don't know of anyone who would think such. Judas, however, did lend himself to the influence of Satan so as to do the work of Satan. Likewise, Jesus explained that the words he spoke were not his own, but that he spoke the words of his Father (the only true God -- John 17:1,3) who was living in him. This agrees with Paul's words of 1 Corinthians 8:6, as well as with the entire rest of the Bible. There is no scriptural reason to imagine and assume the trinitarian assumptions and read such assumptions into what Jesus stated.
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