We have high regard for our unitarian friends who do not believe in the prehuman existence of Jesus, but we cannot agree with them in this conlusion. Most who reject Jesus' prehuman existence do not know the basis of Jesus' ransom sacrifice for sin and how that sacrifice saves Adam and all who are dying in Adam from the condemnation. Usually, those who do not believe Jesus was in existence before the days of flesh know nothing of the restoration (restitution) promises for all mankind that God has guaranteed because of Jesus' sacrifice. -- John 12:47,48; Acts 3:21; 17:31; Romans 5:12-19; 1 Corinthians 15:21,22; Acts 17:31; 1 Timothy 2:5,6.
See
The Ransom Resource Page
We generally do not use the expression "pre-exist", but rather we speak of the "prehuman existence" of Jesus. Some could interpret the tem "pre-exist" to mean a time before one exists. Of course, no one exists in any time before his existence.
We do believe that many scriptures, such as Genesis 1:26,27 (seen with John 1:1-3,10,14; 17:1,35); Proverbs 30:4; Micah 5:2; John 1:1-3,10,14; 3:13,14; 6:62; 17:5; Colossians 1:15,16 and others show that Jesus did exist before his God prepared a body of flesh for him and made him a little lower the angels. -- Hebrews 2:9; 10:5.
See our resource page: Jesus' Prehuman Existence
One unitarian has presented Hebrews 1:2 as being the most powerful of the scriptures offered to prove that Jesus had a prehuman existence, and based on the way this verse is often viewed by trinitarians, he proceeds to knock down that the idea that Hebrews 1:2 refers to Jesus' prehuman existence. We, however, do not usually point to Hebrews 1:2 as related to Jesus' prehuman existence. Indeed, until this thought was presented by some unitarians, we had never thought of Hebrews 1:2 as being used to try to prove Jesus' pre-human existence; to us it would not be the most powerful of the scriptures related to his pre-human existence. We would think even Hebrews 1:10 to be more convincing that Jesus was with his God when the world of mankind was made.
See our study: Does Jehovah Speak to Jehovah?
We do not believe that Hebrews 1:2, however, speaks dirctly of the world being made through Jesus, but it does speak of the "ages" (αἰῶνας -aiōna, accusative masculine plural noun -- Strong's 165) as being made through Jesus. Although the King James Version and many translations do often render the Greek word aiōna as "world", we believe that it is misleading to do so. Despite what many claim, in the Bible forms the Greek word often transliterated as "aión" refers to a time period; the plural form is used in Hebrews 1:2 which refers to ages, periods of time. God has made the ages -- the periods of time as related to man -- through Jesus.Thus Young's Literal translation renders Hebrews 1:2 as: "in these last days did speak to us in a Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He did make the ages." Evidently, Hebrews 11:3 speaks of the same "ages" as referred to Hebrews 1:2. Many assume that it cannot be referring to periods of time in Hebrews 11:3, although, as yet, we have not found any good scriptural reason for making such an assumption. Of course, for God to have made use of Jesus in making the ages starting from the beginning of Genesis onward into all all ages to come through Jesus, Jesus certainly needed to be in existence before those ages were made. John 1:1 does place the Word whose glory was seen by the discples in the first century (John 1:18) as having been in existence before the beginning of the world of mankind that was made through the Word. (John 1:3,10) Thus, we conclude that in Genesis 1:27, Elohim speaks to his Son. See our study: Who is God Speaking To?
It is possible that these "ages" spoken of refer only to the "ages to come" (Ephesians 2:7) which would never be had it not been that the man Jesus gave himself as a ransom sacrifice for all. Hebrews 1:3 refers to Jesus' sacrifice to remove sin. Regardless, these "ages to come" are evidently included in the "ages" referred to in Hebrews 11:2 and also in Hebrews 11:3. God, however, "calls things that are not, as though they were" (Romans 4:17), and thus scriptures often refer to future events as though they already were . Consequently, through Jesus, those "ages to come" are reckoned as having been made. The new creature is reckoned, counted, as though the present age has already passed away, and thereby he tastes of the "age to come." (2 Corinthians 5:17; Hebrews 6:5; Revelation 21:1-5) If the age refer to the future ages, then there is nothing in Hebrews 1:2 that would indicate Jesus' prehuman existence. "Ages" could refer, however, all of the ages of world of mankind, starting with the "beginning" spoken of Genesis 1:1; John 1:1. If this is true, then this verse does have reference to Jesus' prehuman existence, since he would need to be there at that time in order for the first of the ages to have been made through him.
Someone objects that God spoke through angels in the Old Testament. Hebrews 1:1,2 does not mention that Jehovah spoke to the prophets through the angels, but we know that in the Old Testament we do find that Jehovah did speak through his angels who relayed his message to the prophets who delivered the message to the people. (Exodus 3:2-4 [see Acts 7:30,35; Galatians 3:19]; Genesis 16:7-11,13; 22:1,11,12,15-18) In harmony with Hebrews 1:1, God at times made use of his angels when speaking to and through his prophets of old. This does not negate what is stated in Hebrews 1:1.
However, was Jesus used by God to speak through the prophets of old? Hebrews 1:1,2 would seem to indicate that he did not. Nevertheless, we do not know for a fact that Jehovah did not use his Son when Jehovah spoke through the prophets. It could have been that Jehovah did use a similar method as depicted in Revelation 1:1: God to Jesus, Jesus to the angel, the angel to John, and John to the servants of God. Substitute John with the prophets. -- Genesis 16:7-11; 22:11; 31:11; Exodus 3:2-5; 23:20-23; Judges 2:1-4; 6:11,12; 13:3.
Nevertheless, the fact that Jehovah spoke through his prophets does not mean that Jesus was not in existence with his Father before the world of mankind was made. -- John 1:10; 17:1,3,5.
We have a study on Hebrews 1:1-3:
https://jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/2017/04/heb1-1.html
Many make the claim that the Greek word often rendered as "by" or "through" in John 1:3,10, Colossians 1:16, and Hebrews 1:2, means 'on account of', instead being used to denote instrumentality. We believe that this incorrect. Nevertheless, if one simply looks up the meaning of the Greek word "dia" in a Greek dictionary, and see "on account of" listed as one of definitions of the Greek word "dia", it is an easy mistake to make, if one does include the general grammatical rules of the Greek grammar. Thayer shows that when dia is followed by a genetive, the meaning of dia is "through". The Greek of John 1:3 is πάντα (Strong's #3956, panta - nominative neuter plural = all) δι’ (Strong's #1223, di’ = through) αὐτοῦ (Strong's #846, auto - genitive masculine third person singular - him). A literal word-for-word translation of John 1:3: All through him came into being and without him came into being not one. The same is true of the uage of "dia" in the Greek of John 1:10, the Greek of Colossians 1:16 as well as the Greek of Hebrews 1:2.
See our Links to Studies Related to John 1:3
However, contrary to what many believe this does not designate Jesus as the source of creation, but rather as the instrument that the Creator used in whatever creation is being referred to in the context.
See:
www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/kjv/dia.html
Likewise, the Greek preposition often transliterated as "en" (Strong's #1722), as used in Colossians 1:16,17, also denotes instrumentality, as we have shown in the studies listed earlier.
One Unitarian presents Hebrews 1:8-10 as meaning:
"He [Yahweh, verse 5] says of the Son, 'G-d [the Father, Yahweh] is thy throne for ever and ever, thy royal septre is the septre of equity: thou [the Son] hast loved justice and hated lawlessness, therefore G-d, the G-d, has consecrated thee with the oil of rejoicing beyond thy comrades' - and, 'Thou [Yahweh] didst found the earth at the beginning, O L-rd [Yahweh], and the heavens are the work of thy hands; ...'" (Heb. 1:8-10, Moffatt).
Moffatt's Translation without the alterations:
Hebrews 1:8 He says of the Son, 'God is thy throne for ever and ever, thy royal sceptre is the sceptre of equity:
Hebrews 1:9 Thou hast loved justice and hated lawlessnes. Therefore God, thy God, has consecrated thee with the oil of rejoicing beyond thy comrades' --
Hebrews 1:10 and, 'Thou didst found the earth at the beginning, O Lord, and the heavens are the work of thy hands.
As already pointed out, the statements are being made "of" Jehovah's son, not of Jehovah. Jehovah is addressing his Son. The quotes as given by Moffatt do not suggest otherwise, since by connecting them with "and" he is showing that Jehovah is still the speaker who is speaking to His Son. We have no reason to think that Paul does not continue to speak of the Son of Jehovah in Hebrews 1:10.
And [Jehovah continues to speak of His Son], “You, Lord [Jesus], in the beginning, laid the foundation of the earth. The heavens are the works of your hands. They will perish, but you continue. They all will grow old like a garment does. As a mantle you will roll them up. And they will be changed. But you are the same. Your years will not fail.” -- Hebrews 1:10-12, World English.
This is an indirect quote from Psalm 102:25-27. If "Lord" in Hebrews 1:10 means Jehovah, this would mean that Jehovah is speaking of His Son as Himself. Trinitarians love that idea, by which they use their imagination so as to imagine, assume, add to and read into, what is stated that there are two different and distinct persons, both of whom are the same Jehovah.
I wrote on this before, and the study may be found at:
https://jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/2016/09/heb-1-10-12.html
I will quote from that study:
If we read the Psalm closely, we can see that the Psalmist is prophetically playing the role of Messiah in verse 24: “I said, O my God, do not take me away in the midst of my days.” As David often did not speak of himself when using the first person, but prophetically of the Messiah (Psalm 16:8-10=Acts 2:25-30; Psalm 22:1=Matthew 27:46; Psalm22:22=Hebrews 2:11,12; Psalm 35:19=John 15:25; Psalm 40:6-8=Hebrews 10:5-10; Psalm 41:9=John 13:18, etc.), so the writer of Hebrews tells us that the Psalmist who wrote Psalm 102 was prophetic of the Messiah to whom Jehovah, the Father, spoke. From this we can also reasonably conclude that the author of Psalm 102 is also David. Thus Jesus fulfilled this role in his statement: “My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass away from me; nevertheless, not what I want, but what you want.” — Matthew 26:39; See also John 12:27.
It should be borne in mind that punctuation is a modern invention, and thus the punctuation we see in our translations is not inspired. The Scriptures were originally without any punctuation. The punctuation as given in many translations is manifestly wrong in several places. Let us look at Psalm 102-24-27, applying punctuation in accordance to what Paul stated:
For he has looked down from the height of his sanctuary. From heaven, Jehovah saw the earth; To hear the groans of the prisoner; To free those who are condemned to death; That men may declare the name of Jehovah in Zion, And his praise in Jerusalem; When the peoples are gathered together, The kingdoms, to serve Jehovah.
[Now Jesus is represented as speaking at the time of his death.] He weakened my strength along the course. He shortened my days. I said, “My God, don’t take me away in the midst of my days. Your years are throughout all generations.”
[Hear Jehovah's answer of assurance to that heart prayer:] “Of old, you laid the foundation of the earth. The heavens are the work of your hands. They will perish, but you will endure. Yes, all of them will wear out like a garment. You will change them like a cloak, and they will be changed. But you are the same. Your years will have no end. The children of your servants will continue. Their seed will be established before you.”
The present world (kosmos) - the present heavens and earth -- into which sin has come, and which has been made corrupt through that sin, is heavens and earth that is to pass away. The world that was made through Jesus is the world into which Jesus came, but which world did not recognize him because of their darkness due to sin. (John 1:10,11; 3:19) It is the same "world" that sin came into through the first man Adam. (Romans 5:12) It is this world, this heavens and earth, the generation condemned through Adam (Romans 5:12-19), that is/are to pass away. (Isaiah 24:4; Matthew 24:34,35; 1 John 2:17; 2 Corinthian 4:4-6) Peter wrote of a world, a heavens and an earth, that passed away in the flood of Noah's time, but it was not planet earth, nor the physical sun, moon, stars, etc., that passed away. (2 Peter 3:5) However, the world that was made through Jesus is to pass away, but Jesus will never be removed, for his dominion is ann "everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed." -- Daniel 7:14, World English.
Of course, Jesus was not revealed until the New Testament, thus we should not expect to find him directly revealed as being in existence in the days of the Old Testament.
However, contrary to what many believe this does not designate Jesus as the source of creation, but rather as the instrument that the Creator used in whatever creation is being referred to in the context.
See:
www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/kjv/dia.html
Likewise, the Greek preposition often transliterated as "en" (Strong's #1722), as used in Colossians 1:16,17, also denotes instrumentality, as we have shown in the studies listed earlier.
One Unitarian presents Hebrews 1:8-10 as meaning:
"He [Yahweh, verse 5] says of the Son, 'G-d [the Father, Yahweh] is thy throne for ever and ever, thy royal septre is the septre of equity: thou [the Son] hast loved justice and hated lawlessness, therefore G-d, the G-d, has consecrated thee with the oil of rejoicing beyond thy comrades' - and, 'Thou [Yahweh] didst found the earth at the beginning, O L-rd [Yahweh], and the heavens are the work of thy hands; ...'" (Heb. 1:8-10, Moffatt).
Moffatt's Translation without the alterations:
Hebrews 1:8 He says of the Son, 'God is thy throne for ever and ever, thy royal sceptre is the sceptre of equity:
Hebrews 1:9 Thou hast loved justice and hated lawlessnes. Therefore God, thy God, has consecrated thee with the oil of rejoicing beyond thy comrades' --
Hebrews 1:10 and, 'Thou didst found the earth at the beginning, O Lord, and the heavens are the work of thy hands.
As already pointed out, the statements are being made "of" Jehovah's son, not of Jehovah. Jehovah is addressing his Son. The quotes as given by Moffatt do not suggest otherwise, since by connecting them with "and" he is showing that Jehovah is still the speaker who is speaking to His Son. We have no reason to think that Paul does not continue to speak of the Son of Jehovah in Hebrews 1:10.
And [Jehovah continues to speak of His Son], “You, Lord [Jesus], in the beginning, laid the foundation of the earth. The heavens are the works of your hands. They will perish, but you continue. They all will grow old like a garment does. As a mantle you will roll them up. And they will be changed. But you are the same. Your years will not fail.” -- Hebrews 1:10-12, World English.
This is an indirect quote from Psalm 102:25-27. If "Lord" in Hebrews 1:10 means Jehovah, this would mean that Jehovah is speaking of His Son as Himself. Trinitarians love that idea, by which they use their imagination so as to imagine, assume, add to and read into, what is stated that there are two different and distinct persons, both of whom are the same Jehovah.
I wrote on this before, and the study may be found at:
https://jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/2016/09/heb-1-10-12.html
I will quote from that study:
If we read the Psalm closely, we can see that the Psalmist is prophetically playing the role of Messiah in verse 24: “I said, O my God, do not take me away in the midst of my days.” As David often did not speak of himself when using the first person, but prophetically of the Messiah (Psalm 16:8-10=Acts 2:25-30; Psalm 22:1=Matthew 27:46; Psalm22:22=Hebrews 2:11,12; Psalm 35:19=John 15:25; Psalm 40:6-8=Hebrews 10:5-10; Psalm 41:9=John 13:18, etc.), so the writer of Hebrews tells us that the Psalmist who wrote Psalm 102 was prophetic of the Messiah to whom Jehovah, the Father, spoke. From this we can also reasonably conclude that the author of Psalm 102 is also David. Thus Jesus fulfilled this role in his statement: “My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass away from me; nevertheless, not what I want, but what you want.” — Matthew 26:39; See also John 12:27.
It should be borne in mind that punctuation is a modern invention, and thus the punctuation we see in our translations is not inspired. The Scriptures were originally without any punctuation. The punctuation as given in many translations is manifestly wrong in several places. Let us look at Psalm 102-24-27, applying punctuation in accordance to what Paul stated:
For he has looked down from the height of his sanctuary. From heaven, Jehovah saw the earth; To hear the groans of the prisoner; To free those who are condemned to death; That men may declare the name of Jehovah in Zion, And his praise in Jerusalem; When the peoples are gathered together, The kingdoms, to serve Jehovah.
[Now Jesus is represented as speaking at the time of his death.] He weakened my strength along the course. He shortened my days. I said, “My God, don’t take me away in the midst of my days. Your years are throughout all generations.”
[Hear Jehovah's answer of assurance to that heart prayer:] “Of old, you laid the foundation of the earth. The heavens are the work of your hands. They will perish, but you will endure. Yes, all of them will wear out like a garment. You will change them like a cloak, and they will be changed. But you are the same. Your years will have no end. The children of your servants will continue. Their seed will be established before you.”
The present world (kosmos) - the present heavens and earth -- into which sin has come, and which has been made corrupt through that sin, is heavens and earth that is to pass away. The world that was made through Jesus is the world into which Jesus came, but which world did not recognize him because of their darkness due to sin. (John 1:10,11; 3:19) It is the same "world" that sin came into through the first man Adam. (Romans 5:12) It is this world, this heavens and earth, the generation condemned through Adam (Romans 5:12-19), that is/are to pass away. (Isaiah 24:4; Matthew 24:34,35; 1 John 2:17; 2 Corinthian 4:4-6) Peter wrote of a world, a heavens and an earth, that passed away in the flood of Noah's time, but it was not planet earth, nor the physical sun, moon, stars, etc., that passed away. (2 Peter 3:5) However, the world that was made through Jesus is to pass away, but Jesus will never be removed, for his dominion is ann "everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed." -- Daniel 7:14, World English.
Of course, Jesus was not revealed until the New Testament, thus we should not expect to find him directly revealed as being in existence in the days of the Old Testament.
Ronald R. Day, Senior, Restoration Light Bible Study Services: ResLight, Rlbible
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