Saturday, September 24, 2016

Hebrews 1:10-12- Does Jehovah Speak to Jehovah?


(This study needs to updated; links may not work; formatting is inconsistent)

And, "You, Lord, in the beginning, laid the foundation of the earth. The heavens are the works of your hands. They will perish, but you continue. They all will grow old like a garment does. As a mantle you will roll them up. And they will be changed. But you are the same. Your years will not fail." -- Hebrews 1:10-12.

Our trinitarian neighbors and some others claim that in Hebrews 1:10-12, a scripture originally applied to Jehovah (Yahweh) is applied to Jesus. They tell us that it is Jehovah that is being spoken to by the Father in Hebrews 1:10-12, when the writer of Hebrews referenced Psalm 102:25-27. If in Psalm 102:25-27 it is indeed Jehovah who is being addressed, then who is it that is speaking to Jehovah? It would have to be the Psalmist himself. However, the writer of Hebrews indicates that it is the God of Israel who is speaking to the one being spoken to in Psalm 102:25-27. Thus to say that is is Jehovah being spoken to in Psalm 102:25-27 would, in effect, make the Psalmist be playing the role of Jehovah as applied in this manner to Hebrews 1:10-12. In actuality, there is no reason to believe that the Psalmist was playing the role of the Father [who is Jehovah] speaking to the Son [supposedly, according to trinitarians, who is also Jehovah].

Paul in Hebrews plainly tells us that this is God [Jehovah, "God" of Hebrews 1:1,2], the Father of Jesus, speaking to Jesus, his Son. We should, therefore, view Psalm 102:25-27 from this perspective, else we would come to the conclusion that Paul was wrong in his reference.

Paul was not wrong when he said the Father (Jehovah, "God" in Hebrews 1:1,2) spoke to his Son when referencing Psalm 102:25-27. Jehovah [the Father] is not being spoken to at all in these verses, but just as the writer of Hebrews truthfully tells us, it is "God" of Hebrews 1:1,2 who speaks to his Son when he stated these matters.

If we read the Psalm closely, we can see that the Psalmist is prophetically playing the role of Messiah in verse 24: "I said, O my God, do not take me away in the midst of my days." As David often did not speak of himself when using the first person, but prophetically of the Messiah (Psalm 16:8-10=Acts 2:25-30; Psalm 22:1=Matthew 27:46; Psalm22:22=Hebrews 2:11,12; Psalm 35:19=John 15:25; Psalm 40:6-8=Hebrews 10:5-10; Psalm 41:9=John 13:18, etc.), so the writer of Hebrews tells us that the Psalmist who wrote Psalm 102 was prophetic of the Messiah to whom Jehovah, the Father, spoke. From this we can also reasonably conclude that the author of Psalm 102 is also David. Thus Jesus fulfilled this role in his statement: "My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass away from me; nevertheless, not what I want, but what you want." -- Matthew 26:39; See also John 12:27.

It should be borne in mind that punctuation is a modern invention, and thus the punctuation we see in our translations is not inspired. The Scriptures were previously without any punctuation. The punctuation as given in many translations is manifestly wrong in several places. Let us look at Psalm 102-24-27, applying punctuation in accordance to what Paul stated:

For he has looked down from the height of his sanctuary. From heaven, Jehovah saw the earth; To hear the groans of the prisoner; To free those who are condemned to death; That men may declare the name of Jehovah in Zion, And his praise in Jerusalem; When the peoples are gathered together, The kingdoms, to serve Jehovah.

[Now Jesus is represented as speaking at the time of his death.] He weakened my strength along the course. He shortened my days. I said, "My God, don't take me away in the midst of my days. Your years are throughout all generations."

[Hear Jehovah's answer of assurance to that heart prayer:] "Of old, you laid the foundation of the earth. The heavens are the work of your hands. They will perish, but you will endure. Yes, all of them will wear out like a garment. You will change them like a cloak, and they will be changed. But you are the same. Your years will have no end. The children of your servants will continue. Their seed will be established before you." -- Psalm 102:26-28.

Thus we have no reason to believe Paul is incorrect in his application of the scripture, and likewise this scripture does not provide any proof of the claim that Jesus is Jehovah.

It is being claimed that when Hebrews 1:10 says "Lord", that "Lord" in this verse means "Jehovah" (Yahweh). We have no reason to imagine, assume, add to, and read into Hebrews 1:10, that by the reference to Jehovah's addressing Jesus as "Lord", that the one person who is Jehovah of Isaiah 61:1 meant that Jesus is Jehovah. It was the "Lord Jehovah" of Isaiah 61:1 who anointed Jesus and made Jesus both Christ and "Lord". -- Psalm 2:2,6; 45:7; Ezekiel 34:23,24; John 10:29; Acts 2:23,36; 4:27; 10:36; Hebrews 1:9.

There is not a word for "lord" in Psalm 102, thus the writer of Hebrews 1:10 inserted this into the words that Jehovah spoke to the one anointed, as recorded in Psalm 102:25-28. Jehovah, of course, has no one as "lord" over Him, so if Jehovah were to speak of another as "lord", it would have to be in the sense that Jehovah has given to that one the power and authority as "lord", not that such would become Jehovah.

Is Jesus Being Designated as the Source of Creation?

In this scripture, Paul quotes from Psalm 102:25-27, and tells us that Jehovah is speaking here to his son. Does this scripture designate Jesus as "the" source Creator of the heavens and the earth? It does say that the "heavens" are the work of his hands, and that he was the one who laid the foundation of the earth. The question is what is meant by "heavens" here? What is meant by earth? Is it speaking of the entire universe?

Many fail to take into consideration the scriptures as a whole, and thus come up with the wrong conclusions concerning what is being said in this verse. We should rightly divide the Word of Truth, so as to make the proper applications as related to context as well as the rest of the scriptures. (2 Timothy 2:15) God has revealed his truth by means of his holy spirit through the prophets in the Old Testament and through Jesus and his apostles in the New Testament. (Mark 12:36; Luke 4:11; 10:21; 24:27,44; Acts 1:16; 2:33; 10:38; 28:25; Hebrews 1:1,3; 3:7; 1 Peter 3:10-12; 2 Peter 1:21) God, by means of his holy spirit, especially led the apostles into all the truths concerning Christ and what he said. (John 14:26; 16:4-13; Acts 1:2; Galatians 1:12; Ephesians 3:5; 1 Thessalonians 1:5; 2 Timothy 2:2) The truths revealed to the apostles and made available to us are recorded in the Bible (the commonly-accepted 66 books) itself. (Ephesians 3:3-12; Colossians 1:25,26; 1 John 4:6) Of course, without the holy spirit, these things that are recorded will still be a mystery to us. (Mark 4:11; 1 Corinthians 2:7-10) What we need to do, if we are to be harmony with what God's spirit has revealed, is look closely and compare spiritual revealing with spiritual revealing as given in the scriptures. -- 1 Corinthians 2:10,13.

In context, the heavens and earth being spoken of is said to pass away. Therefore, we can conclude that this is not speaking of the heavens where God's throne is, or where God and angels dwell, and we can further conclude that it is not speaking of the physical heavens or the physical earth, which will never be removed. -- Psalm 72:17; 78:69; 89:36; 104:5.

Hebrews 1:10: "And, "You, Lord, in the beginning, laid the foundation of the earth. The heavens are the works of your hands." We believe that this is referring to creation of the heavens and earth as described in Genesis 1:1, not of the planet, and certainly not the heavens where God resides. The present heavens and earth, which were created in the six days "beginning" of Genesis 1:1-31, will pass away, in effect, the will "changed" into the new heavens and earth. Peter speaks of this in a slightly different manner in 2 Peter 3, in that he speaks of three heavens and three earth, whereas Hebrews 1:10-12 combines the first two that Peter speaks of as one. 2 Peter 3:5,6 speaks of the heavens that were (past tense) and an earth, which had created by means of the word [Logos] of God. (John 1:1,3) This original creation was indeed created by means of the Logos, which had become corrupted because of Adam's sin (Romans 5:12-19; 8:19-22) but we should note that there was a world (kosmos) of mankind that passed perished in the flood of Noah's day. (2 Peter 3:6) Please note the six days of Genesis 1:1 - 2:1, in which God created the heavens and the earth (Exodus 20:11; 31:17), through the Logos (John 1:3,10), do not refer to the making of the actual planet earth, nor of the making of the heavens that is God's throne. (Psalm 1:11; Isaiah 66:1; Matthew 5:34; 23:22; Acts 7:49) We have presented elsewhere the scriptural proofs that John 1:1 and Genesis 1:1 are not speaking of the creation of the whole universe, or the physical planets, stars, earth, etc. Certainly, when Genesis 1:1 speaks of heavens, it not speaking of the heaven where God resides with his angels (2 Chronicles 28:6; Job 1:6; Matthew 18:10; 1 Timothy 6:16), and of which the scriptures speak of as His throne. -- Psalm 11:14; 102:19; 103:19; Isaiah 66:1.

That first heavens and earth, or "world" (kosmos), as spoken of by Peter, had already perished at the time of the writing of both Psalm 102:25-27 and also of Hebrews 1:10. This agrees with Genesis 6:13, where God tells Noah that he was about destroy that earth -- not the planet itself -- but the conditions that had become prevalent upon the planet. That heavens and earth -- that world (kosmos) -- perished, but it was not the physical heavens and earth that perished, for these still exist. Out of the ruins of that kosmos, however, another heavens and earth came into being, which Peter refers to as "the present heavens and the earth, by the same word are treasured." (2 Peter 3:7, Young's Literal Translation) While it is possible that the same Logos of God was used in establishing and laying the foundation of the present heavens and earth as had been used in the original heavens and earth that had been destroyed in the flood of Noah's day (2 Peter 3:5,6) , we should also recognize that the word "kosmos" -- world -- usually refers to the general world of mankind, which world (kosmos) was corrupted due to the sin of Adam. (Romans 5:12) Nevertheless, by comparing all of these spiritual revealings, we can come to one of two conclusions: if the writer of Hebrews is using the same "heavens and earth" in the same manner of Peter, then that it is the present heavens and earth (2 Peter 3:7) that is being spoken of Hebrews 1:10, which heavens and earth were established after the flood of Noah's day. It is this heavens and earth that Peter says "the heavens with a rushing noise will pass away, and the elements with burning heat be dissolved, and earth and the works in it shall be burnt up." (2 Peter 3:10) This agrees perfectly with Hebrews 1:10. However, it seems more likely that Paul, assumed to be writer of Hebrews is actually referring to the whole period from the creation in Genesis 1 until the time it passes away, ignoring the separation that Peter makes.

We know that the word *kosmos* (world) can be applied to the present world of mankind as going all the way back to Adam, disregarding the destruction of the *kosmos* that is spoken of as having perished in 2 Peter 3:6. Romans 1:20 appears to be speaking of the original creation of the world, for instance. Romans 5:12 speaks of sin entering into the world (kosmos), thus applying the word as disregarding the world that perished in the flood of Noah's day. Thus it is probably that the heavens and earth made by the hands of Jesus Hebrews 1:10 is referring to the same period of time spoken of in Genesis 1:1 - 2:1.

Regardless, the heavens and earth being spoken of in Genesis 1:1 are said to be created by God, but we learn in the New Testament that God created "through" the Logos, or as it reads in the World English at Ephesians 3:9: "God ... created all things through [Greek, dia, Strong's #1223] Jesus Christ." "All things [the all] through [Greek, dia, Strong's #1223] him, and for him, have been created him, and to him." (Colossians 1:16, Young's Literal Translation) Thus seen, when Colossians 1:16 says that "by" (Strong's 1722) all spoken of was made, the Greek word often transliterated as EN should be understood as instrumentality, that is, "by means of". God created the all (ta panta) through, by means of, his Son.

Regarding Colossians 1:16, see: Study of EN and DIA in Colossians 1 and Is Jesus Designated the Originator of Creation?

The "heavens" that ruled the earth in the beginning was also established by means of the Logos. However, it was corrupted by a usurper. Using the King of Tyre as a symbol of the angel that rebelled, this arrangement is spoken of in Ezekiel 28:13-15. Originally, there was one appointed/anointed in the heavens over Eden as a covering cherub, and that one rebelled against God's arrangements. Satan set himself up as the ruler and "god of this world". (2 Corinthians 4:4) Thus, we are told that our fight is against "against the spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places." -- Ephesians 6:12.

The foundations of human society were also laid there (Mark 10:6), in family and fraternal relationships, on the basis of love and justice, on which the human race could have built up a social structure as fine and as sweet as that of heaven; and, in perfect joy with each other, mankind could have delighted without fear in the unfolding wonders with which the Creator had filled the earth, and possibly even other planets. But Solomon said: "This only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions." -- Ecclesiastes 7:29.

They will perish, but you continue. They all will grow old like a garment does. -- Hebrews 1:11.

This present evil world or arrangement -- both its heavens [the rulership by Satan and his demons as well as their human agencies] and its earth [the arrangement of disobedient human society in general] are to perish. Again, this is not speaking of the planet, nor of the physical heavens above, for these will never be removed.

As a mantle you will roll them up. And they will be changed. But you are the same. Your years will not fail. -- Hebrews 1:12.

As a an old piece of clothing, they will be rolled up, and changed. As they were they will no longer be actively worn as a mantle. In effect, they will no longer be active. However, as God says: "Behold, I make all things new." (Revelation 21:5) The old system of Satan, as such is to be destroyed, but out of its "mantle", which is folded and changed, comes forth "the new heavens [with its New Jerusalem from which to rule] and the new earth," in which righteousness will dwell. - - Revelation 21:1-5; 2 Peter 3:13.

As foretold, Jesus has remained faithful from creation's beginning -- he has remained the same. Even while he came to suffer as a man on earth, he remained the same -- not the same in substance, for while as human, he did not have the glory of the heavenly substance (John 17:5; 1 Corinthians 15:40), but he continued in faithful obedience to his God. (Philippians 2:8; Hebrews 5:8; 10:7-9) And Jesus now will remain the same, and his years will not fail or ever end, since having been made alive from death, he now dies no more. -- Romans 6:9; Hebrews 7:16,25; Revelation 1:18.

There is nothing in any of this, however, that means that Jesus is Jehovah, his God. -- Hebrews 1:9.

What About Isaiah 48:13?

He laid the foundations of the earth, That it should not be moved forever. -- Psalm 104:5, World English Bible translation.

Yes, my hand has laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand has spread out the heavens: when I call to them, they stand up together. -- Isaiah 48:13, World English Bible translation.

He built his sanctuary like the heights, Like the earth which he has established forever. -- Psalm 78:69, World English Bible translation.

Through comparisons the scriptures, we should realize that the above scriptures are not speaking of the same things as "heavens" and "earth" that is being spoken of in Hebrews 1:10,11. In context of the latter, the heavens and earth are said to pass away. Thus, this is not speaking of the heavens where God's throne is, or where God and angels dwell, nor is it speaking of the physical heavens or the physical earth, which will never be removed. -- Psalm 72:17; 78:69; 89:36; 104:5; Matthew 18:10.

In Isaiah 48:13, Jehovah speaks of his laying the foundation of the physical earth and spreading out the physical heavens. These obey his commands, so that when he calls, they stand up together (in harmony). We see from Genesis 1:14-19 that the physical earth and the stars, etc., are shown as obeying the commands of Jehovah. -- Genesis 1:14-19.

The physical earth spoken of in Isaiah 48:13 has been established forever, and will never be removed forever . -- Psalm 78:69; 104:5 -- Strong's #05703 and #05769 are both used in Psalm 104:5, thus signifying that the foundation of the physical earth will never be removed.

Therefore, it will be true that the day will come when the righteous will never be removed from the physical earth when it has been made new, but the wicked will not dwell in the earth anymore. -- Psalm 37:9-11,22,28,39; Proverbs 10:30; Matthew 5:5; Revelation 20:1-5.

Thus, Isaiah 48:13 is speaking of the physical heavens and earth that will never be removed, while Hebrews 1:10 is speaking of a heavens and earth that will be be removed.

The Beginning

In Genesis 1:1 and John 1:1, we read of a "beginning". Many have assumed that this "beginning" refers to absolutely everything in the universe, yet if we compare spiritual revealment with spiritual revealment, in both cases we can see that the scriptures show otherwise. Likewise, the "panta" -- all -- that was created through the Logos, referred to in John 1:3,4, is speaking, not of everything in the universe, but the world that was made by means of the Logos, the same world that did not recognize him. -- John 1:10
See:

In Exodus 20:11, we read:
for in six days Jehovah made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day; therefore Jehovah blessed the Sabbath day, and made it holy.
The above scripture says that Jehovah created the heavens and earth in 6 days. Does it mean 6 24-hour days? Genesis 2:4 speaks of "the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens." (KJV) In one place it says six days; in the other it speaks of one day. Obviously 6 X 24 hours does not equal 24 hours, so we realize that the word "day" is spoken of to designate any length of time -- sometimes consistent and definite in length and sometimes not so definite.

However, this entire creative "day", spoken of as "six days", is the beginning spoken of in Genesis 1:1 and John 1:1. It was this "world" that was made through Jesus, and which Jesus came into, and which did not recognize Jesus. (John 1:10) That the "beginning" spoken of in John 1:1 relates to the world into which Jesus came, can be seen from Jesus' statement in Mark 10:6: "But from the beginning of the creation, 'God made them male and female." (See also Mark 13:19; 2 Peter 3:4) Jesus says that he was sent into this world by his God. "God sent the Son into the world, not to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through him." (John 3:17, Revised Standard Version) It should be clear that by "world" here that Jesus did not mean the world of the angels, but rather that he was speaking of the world of mankind.

Jesus tells us that he was with his Father before this world, the world that he came into, and which world did not recognize him, was created. We have no reason to think that the glory which Jesus said he had with the only true God before the world was made was a glory that existed only the mind of God, for why should he ask for such a glory to be given to him? He was asking for the heavenly glory that he had with the only true God before the world into which he came was made, and which glory he did not possess while he was a human being. -- John 1:10; 17:5.

It needs to be emphasized what "world" is being spoken, in order to understand what is being spoken of when the scripture says that "all things were made through him, and without him not one thing was made." (John 1:3) It is this world that Jesus said he came into, and which he left. "I came out from the Father, and have come into the world. Again, I leave the world, and go to the Father." (John 16:28, World English Bible translation) The scripture is not including the spirit world in this "world" of which he speaks, for it is not the spirit world that does not recognize him, but he refers to world that did not recognize him. The word "world" (kosmos) in the New Testament is consistently used, not of the material universe, but rather of the world in which mankind lives, although since the believers, or those in covenant relationship with God, are, in effect considered as separate from the world, the word "world" is thus sometimes used in exclusion of such believers. One can examine the usage of the word "kosmos" online at:https://biblehub.com/greek/2889.htm

That there was, then, a creation before the beginning of the world of mankind can be seen in the fact that the angels were already in existence before the earth was brought forth. (Job 38:4-6) While the scriptures do not specifically speak of the creation of the angels, we have no reason to conclude that the angels were not created, since man is said to have be made a little lower than the angels. -- Psalm 8:5; Hebrews 2:7.

The beginning spoken of in Genesis 1:1 refers to the six days of creation as respects the ordering of the earth for life, especially that of man. We know this because of Exodus 20:11, 31:17. The heavens [the atmosphere, sky -- Genesis 1:8] and the earth [land-masses -- Genesis 1:10] were made in six days. This agrees also with Matthew 19:4,5, Mark 10:6 which refer to the "beginning" as when Adam and Eve were created. The angels were already in existence at this beginning, for they shouted with joy at the creation of earth. (Job 38:4-11) Likewise the "earth" in some material form appears to have already existed, for it "was" at the beginning of the first day (Genesis 1:2), similar to the expression that the Logos "was" in the beginning spoken of in John 1:1. And we know that the angels were already in existence at this creation, since they are spoken of in Job 38:4-7 as shouting for joy at the creatin of the earth. (See also Job 1:6; 2:1) The above additionally would be in harmony with several scriptures where "creation" is spoken with reference to creation of mankind, not the angels, stars, etc. -- Mark 10:6; Romans 8:20,22; 2 Peter 3:4.

By this we can see that the heavens and earth, spoken of in Genesis 1:1 and Hebrews 1:10, as well as the "world" spoken of John 1:9,10; 17:5, was the work of the God and Father of Jesus (Romans 1:7; 15:6; 2 Corinthians 1:3; 11:31; Ephesians 1:3,17; 1 Peter 1:3), which was indeed performed through Jesus (Ephesians 3:9), the firstborn creature. -- John 1:3; Colossians 1:15; Hebrews 1:10,11.

ADDENDUM

One has asked: In the context of this quote from Psalms...who is the Lord?

I am not sure what is being asked here. I am assuming that it is asking who is "the LORD" as it appears in most translations of Psalm 102? Most translators change the Holy Name to "the LORD", if that is what is being asked.

However, in Psalm 102:1-23, the Psalmist is speaking as though the Messiah, not Jehovah.

The following translation (provided by the person who asked the above question) renders the Holy Name as "Yahweh". But we should note that the Messiah says:

Let this be written for the next generation,
so that a people yet to be created may praise Yah,
that he looked down from his holy height.
Yahweh looked from heaven over the earth
to hear the groaning of the prisoner,
to liberate those destined to die,
so that they may make known in Zion the name of Yahweh,
and his praise in Jerusalem,
when the peoples assemble,
together with kingdoms, to serve Yahweh.
He has broken my strength along the way;
he has cut short my days.
I say, “My God, do not carry me off
from my life in the middle of my days.”

Jehovah then responds to the Messiah, His son:

Your years continue throughout all generations.
Long ago you laid the foundation of the earth,
and the heavens are the work of your hands.
They will perish, but you will endure.
And like a garment they will all wear out,
you will replace them like clothing, and they will be set aside.
But you are the same,
and your years do not end.

This agrees with what is written in Hebrews 1:1-12; 5:7; 6:20; 13:20.

By Ronald R. Day, Sr.


Related RL Studies:

For related studies written by others on the above scriptures, see:
















21 comments:

  1. You rambled on and on providing an explanation to something that bright no strength or Proof to your argument (what is new heaven and earth, what is creation, etc etc..)
    When it comes down to it, your only real support for your interpretation, is by you having to add "Jehovah then responds to the Messiah, His son:"

    This is NOT what is written. You're adding words to the scriptures. Revelations 23:18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. This comment has been removed by the author.

      Delete

    2. Q:You rambled on and on providing an explanation to something that bright no strength or Proof to your argument (what is new heaven and earth, what is creation, etc etc..:

      Without some exact designation as to what is being referred to, the above is too general to actually do any response. I will ask, however, what do you believe was the world (kosmos) -- the heavens and earth -- that perished in the flood of Noah's day? -- 2 Peter 3:5,6.

      For further study:
      Jehovah's Plan of the Ages
      http://bible-covenants.blogspot.com/2016/11/ages.html

      Q:When it comes down to it, your only real support for your interpretation, is by you having to add "Jehovah then responds to the Messiah, His son:"
      This is NOT what is written.:

      Who is the one person who is God in Hebrews 1:1? Is it not Jehovah, who spoke through Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, etc. While not directly stated, it has to be Jehovah, one person who is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, as spoken of in Exodus 3:14,15; Deuteronomy 18:15-19 and Acts 3:13-26, and it is the one person who is Jehovah who speaks of His Son (Hebrews 1:8), and speaks to His Son as it is stated Hebrews 1:6, by the words of Hebrews 1:10. Otherwise, Hebrews 1 is false.

      One might wish to also see:
      Did Paul Misquote?

      Q: You're adding words to the scriptures. Revelations 23:18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll.:

      Does not apply. However, if one would wish to think that God who was not Jesus spoke to God who is Jesus in Hebrews 1:10, that is definitely adding to what is stated, since it should be obvious that it is the one person who is God in Hebrews 1:1,2, who speaks to His son in Hebrews 1:10. One definitely has to add to, and read into, any scripture in the Bible, that God is more than one person, and that Jesus is a person of God (added-on trinity dogma), or that Jesus is both God (the Father of Jesus) and the Son of God (allegedly the Son of Jesus, oneness, modalist, dogma).

      Delete
  2. sound and bible-based reasoning. tnx

    ReplyDelete
  3. Obviously, you don't understand Hebrews 1 at all. Hebrews 1:3 describes the Son as the 'brightness (apaugasma - beaming forth - KITGS)of the Father's glory'. God is light (1 Jn 1:5), the Son is 'true light' (Jn 1:9). There is no division of substance or being (i.e. the uncreated light) between the Father and Son, who are one (Jn 10:30). YHWH in Hebrew means 'He is'(third person singular of 'to be'- Jewish Encyclopedia, Names of God). 'He is', therefore, is a designation that can properly be applied to the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit alike, into whose sacred name, not names, the faithful are to be baptized, according to the ordainment of Christ Himself (Mt 28:19). Our baptismal vow itself, therefore, expresses an implicit Trinitarian form of belief. The word of God designates the Son or Word as creative word of the Father which abides in the bosom of the Father (Jn 1:18), through which ALL THINGS THAT WERE MADE HAVE BEEN MADE (Jn 1:3) - no exceptions. "YHWH giveth wisdom out of his mouth" (Prov 2:6). The Son comes forth from the very recesses of the Father, as Christ affirms, when He says, literally, in the Greek, "I came out of God and came forth" (Jn 8:42). Likewise Proverbs 8:22-30 describes an act of intellectual reflection on God's part (wisdom being God's image - Col 1:15, Heb 1:3), not His creating an archangelic personality as helpmate in His creative works. Moreover, the same idea of God hidden (Father) [i.e. hidden eternal and uncreated light]and God manifested (Son) [manifested uncreated eternal light] can be found at Titus 2:13, which speaks of the "manifestation of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ" (i.e. God manifest), and in 1 John, which speaks of the Father as "true God and eternal life" (1 Jn 5:20), and of the Son as 'that eternal life, which was with the Father (from all eternity!) and manifested to us' (1 Jn 1:2). Hence, the Father = eternal life = eternal life manifested = the Son. Hence the Son is the "image of God" (Col 1:15), and "the exact representation of his very being" (Heb 1:2). A created and delimited archangel (Michael, taught incorrectly by the JWs to be the only begotten Son of God )is not the exact representation of the infinite God of the universe, but one of His 'flaming ministers', as Hebrews 1:5 informs us. Paul clearly states that God says to the Son (i.e. it is written in God's word), that what is written of YHWH in Psalm 102:25-27 applies directly to the Son of God Himself. This article tries to obfuscate a very clear and simple truth by leading us far astray from the text as it has been given to us, because it directly refutes the erroneous teachings of the Watchtower Society in respect to the person and nature of the Son of God, which is the product of a very simplistic picture thinking mode of understanding, rather than of spiritual intuition, what Paul referred to as babes milk, in distinction to spiritual meat (Heb 5:12). Oh Witnesses, raise your minds from the things of the flesh to those of the spirit!

    Thomas Palmieri

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thomas Palmieri stated:
      QUOTE: Obviously, you don't understand Hebrews 1 at all. Hebrews 1:3 describes the Son as the 'brightness (apaugasma - beaming forth - of the Father's glory;. :ENDQUOTE

      It is quite obvious that "God" in Hebrews 1:3 refers to only one person; this is the same one person who is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob of Exodus 3:15 and Acts 3:13. This is the same as the "one God of whom are all." Only the God and Father of Jesus is the "one God of whom are all." -- 1 Coriunthians 8:6; Ephesians 1:3,17-23.

      The Greek word transliterated as "apaugasma" only appears once in the Bible; it does not appear anywhere else except in Hebrews 1:3. Thayer defines this Greek word (Strong's 541), not only as effulgence, shining forth coming from an luminous body, but as "reflected brightness: of Christ in that he perfectly reflects the majesty of God." Jesus is light only in his obedience by which he reflects the glory of His God. He has never fallen short of reflecting the glory of his God. -- Romans 3:23.

      https://www.studylight.org/lexicons/greek/541.html

      For various studies related to Hebrews 1:
      https://jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/p/scriptures-examined.html#heb1-1

      Thomas Palmieri stated:
      QUOTE: God is light (1 Jn 1:5),
      the Son is "true light"; (Jn 1:9). :ENDQUOTE

      And the followers of Jesus are the "light of the world." -- Matthew 5:14.

      Obviously, "light" applied to the followers of Jesus does not mean that the followers of Jesus are all the Supreme Being.

      John 1:9 - The true light that enlightens every man was coming into the world. -- Revised Standard Version.

      John 1:9 is referring to Jesus while he was in the world of mankind that was made through him. -- John 1:3,10.

      John 9:5 - As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world." -- Revised Standard Version.

      Jehovah sent his son into the world of mankind with the foreknowledge that He would remain faithful (Acts 2:23; Romans 4:17; 1 Peter 1:19,20), that he would true light that was to enlighten every man. Jesus was the first man to never once disobeyed his God and Father; he remained obedient even until death. (Philippians 2:8) Due to his being faithful in remaining without sin, he is true light for mankind. By his obedience he had the price to pay to his God in order to free man from the condemnation of death, by which victory he brought life and incorruption to light for mankind. -- Romans 5:12-19; 1 Corinthians 15:21,22; 1 Timothy 1:10; 2:5,6; Matthew 26:26-28; Luke 22:19; Romans 3:25; 1 Corinthians 15:39-41; Colossians 1:14; Ephesians 5:2; Hebrews 2:9; 9:14; 10:10-12; 1 Peter 2:24; 3:18; 1 John 1:7; Revelation 1:5.

      In the context, we find that this light is indeed referring to a person who, unlike the dying human race in Adam, had "life" in him. (John 1:4) Jesus used a similar expression as recorded in John 6:53. Obviously, to have life in oneself means to have an uncondemned life, similar to what Adam had before Adam sinned. In the case of Jesus, however, God gave to Jesus, in his flesh, life that is not condemned in Adam, but unlike Adam, Jesus remained faithful to God, and never once sinned. Thus, Jesus "was" -- while he the days of his flesh -- the first to bring "life and incorruption" to light, making himself, while he was in the world condemned in Adam, the light of the world. Jesus, however, willingly gave up his life as human in order to buy back what Adam lost.

      For studies related to John 1:
      https://jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/p/scriptures-examined.html#john1-1

      Delete
    2. Thomas Palmieri stated:
      QUOTE: There is no division of substance or being (i.e. the uncreated light) between the Father and Son, who are one (Jn 10:30). :ENDQUOTE

      There is no reason to imagine, assume, and the add the above to the Bible. John 10:30 definitely says nothing about the Father, the Son and Holy Spirit as being all the "one God of whom are all," or that they all three have the substance of being the Supreme Being who is the source of all.

      For studies related to John 10:30:
      https://jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/p/scriptures-examined.html#john10-30

      Thomas Palmieri stated:
      QUOTE: YHWH in Hebrew means "He is"(third person singular of "to be"- Jewish Encyclopedia, Names of God). "He is", therefore, is a designation that can properly be applied to the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit alike, into whose sacred name, not names, the faithful are to be baptized, according to the ordainment of Christ Himself (Mt 28:19). Our baptismal vow itself, therefore, expresses an implicit Trinitarian form of belief. :ENDQUOTE

      And yet, in the Bible, the Holy Name often rendered as "Jehovah" is only applied to the "one God of whom are all." It is never applied to the "one Lord through whom are all." -- 1 Corinthians 8:6.

      For studies related to the Holy Name:
      https://nameofyah.blogspot.com/p/on-this-site.html

      Thomas Palmieri stated:
      QUOTE: The word of God designates the Son or Word as creative word of the Father which abides in the bosom of the Father (Jn 1:18), through which ALL THINGS THAT WERE MADE HAVE BEEN MADE (Jn 1:3) - no exceptions. "YHWH giveth :ENDQUOTE

      The Word of God is designated as being instrument, not the source, of the creation that "one God of whom are all" created by means of the "one Lord through whom are all." (1 Corinthians 8:6) Jesus is no where spoken of as being the Creator in the Bible.
      Related studies:
      https://jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/p/jesus-and-creation.html

      Delete
  4. You obviously do not understand Hebrews Chapter 1. In verse 1:3 Paul says the Son 'is the brightness (apaugasma - 'beaming forth' - KITGS) of the Father's glory'. God is light (1 Jn 1:5), the Son is true light (Jn 1:9). There is no separation or division in the eternal uncreated light of Godhead between the Father and Son. How do you separate light from its brightness? The Father is true God and eternal life (1 Jn 5:20); the Son of God is "that eternal life, which was with the Father (from all eternity!), and manifested to us" (1 Jn 1:2). God = eternal life = eternal life manifested = the Son. The Son or Word was in the bosom of the Father (Jn 1:18), and came forth out of the Father (Jn 8:42), His creative word (Jn 1:3), which He spoke forth (Prov 2:6) when He fashioned the world into existence (Prov 8:22-30). Russell is putting words into Psalm 102:25-27 which are not there when he says that it is Christ on the cross crying out to God not to cut His years short (Did Paul Misquote?), for Christ embraced His death for the sake of suffering humanity, He did not ask to be spared, who said in the garden, not as I will, but as thou wilt (Mt 26:39). It was indeed the psalmist who said to YHWH, "thy years are throughout all generations (verse 24), thou hast laid the foundations of the earth (verse 25)' & etc. Russell switches the verse ordering of v. 23 and 24 in order to hide the connection between "My God...thy years are throughout all generations" and verses 25-27. Nowhere does it say God responded to the psalmist's plea in vs. 23-24. That is Russell's invention to deny Paul's linkage of Christ and YHWH, but only the gullible and the un-inquisitive are taken in by such deception. Please stop defending the indefensible!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. This comment has been removed by the author.

      Delete
    2. Thomas Palmieri commented:
      QUOTE: The Father is true God and eternal life (1 Jn 5:20); the Son of God is "that eternal life, which was with the Father (from all eternity!), and manifested to us" (1 Jn 1:2).
      God = eternal life = eternal life :ENDQUOTE

      There is no reason to imagine, assume, add to, and read into the above scriptures that Jesus is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and to further imagine, assume, add to, and read into the scriptures that the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is more than one person, and then to further imagine, assume, add to, and read into the scriptures that Jesus is one of the persons of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

      John 17:3 tells us the it is eternal life to us to know the only true God and additionally the one whom the only true Gop sent.

      For our related study:
      https://jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/2018/04/1jhn1-1.html

      Thomas Palmieri commented:
      QUOTE: manifested = the Son. The Son or Word was in the bosom of the Father (Jn 1:18), :ENDQUOTE

      The Son of God is indeed in the figurative bosom of his God and Father. Jesus came to declare the "one God of whom are all." -- 1 Corinthians 8:6

      Thomas Palmieri commented:
      QUOTE: and came forth out of the Father (Jn 8:42), :ENDQUOTE
      Yes, Jesus came forth out from the only true God.

      Thomas Palmieri commented:
      QUOTE: His creative word (Jn 1:3), :ENDQUOTE

      John 1:3 does reveal that the Word, the Son of God, as the instrument that God used in creating the World of Mankind. -- John 1:10.

      Thomas Palmieri commented:
      QUOTE: which He spoke forth (Prov 2:6) :ENDQUOTE

      Proverbs 2:6 - For Jehovah gives wisdom; out of His mouth are knowledge and understanding. -- Green's Literal.

      Evidently, it is being read into this verse that "wisdom" refers to Jesus. I don't think that this is what is meant in this verse. If it does, it certain would distinguish Jesus from being Jehovah, and would have to be understood as being the instrument of the "one God." -- 1 Corinthians 8:6.

      Thomas Palmieri commented:
      QUOTE: when He fashioned the world into existence (Prov 8:22-30). :ENDQUOTE

      I do believe that Jehovah did make use of his firstborn son in the creation of the world of mankind. See my related study:
      https://jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/2017/05/prov8-22.html

      Delete
    3. Thomas Palmieri commented:
      QUOTE: Russell is putting words into Psalm 102:25-27 which are not there when he says that it is Christ on the cross crying out to God not to cut His years short (Did Paul Misquote?), :ENDQUOTE

      It is Hebrews 1 that identifies the one person who is God of Hebrews 1:1 as speaking to His Son in Psalm 102:25-27; Russell simply showed the application.

      "of the Son he [the one person who is God of Hebrews 1:1-7] saith" -- Hebrews 1:8.

      Thomas Palmieri commented:
      QUOTE: for Christ embraced His death for the sake of suffering humanity, He did not ask to be spared, who said in the garden, not as I will, but as thou wilt (Mt 26:39). :ENDQUOTE

      The word "Christ" refers to one anointed; as applied to Jesus, it refers to the one whom Jehovah -- the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob -- anointed. -- Psalm 2:6; 45:7; Daniel 9:24; Isaiah 61:1; Acts 4:27; 10:38; Hebrews 1:9.

      Matthew 26:39 - And he went forward a little, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, My Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass away from me: nevertheless, not as I will, but as thou wilt.

      Jesus is definitely not Jehovah, the "one God of whom are all." -- 1 Corinthians 8:6.

      Thomas Palmieri commented:
      QUOTE: It was indeed the psalmist who said to YHWH, "thy years are throughout all generations (verse 24), thou hast laid the foundations of the earth (verse 25)' & etc. :ENDQUOTE

      This would mean that Hebrews 1 would be identifying the Psalmist as being the God of Jesus.

      Delete
    4. Thomas Palmieri commented:
      QUOTE: Russell switches the verse ordering of v. 23 and 24 in order to hide the connection between "My God...thy years are throughout all generations" and verses 25-27. :ENDQUOTE

      I don't find the above inverted. Russell's application; I have added verse numbers:

      [19] "For he hath looked down from the height of his sanctuary; from heaven did Jehovah behold the earth. [20] To hear the groaning of the prisoner, to loose those that are appointed to death: [21] To declare the name of Jehovah in Zion and his praise in Jerusalem, [22] when the people are gathered together and the kingdoms to serve Jehovah. [23] [Now Jesus is represented as speaking at the time of crucifixion.] He weakened my strength in the way, He shortened my days. [24] I said, O my God, take me not away in the midst of my days. [Hear Jehovah's answer to that heart prayer.] Thy years are throughout all generations. [25] Of old thou hast laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of thy hands; [26] they shall perish, but thou shalt endure; yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment: As a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed; [27] but thou art the same, and thy years shall have no end."

      The verses as presented in the American Standard Version:

      Psalms 102:19-27 - For he hath looked down from the height of his sanctuary; From heaven did Jehovah behold the earth;[20] To hear the sighing of the prisoner; To loose those that are appointed to death;[21] That men may declare the name of Jehovah in Zion, And his praise in Jerusalem;[22] When the peoples are gathered together, And the kingdoms, to serve Jehovah.[23] He weakened my strength in the way; He shortened my days.[24] I said, O my God, take me not away in the midst of my days: Thy years are throughout all generations.[25] Of old didst thou lay the foundation of the earth; And the heavens are the work of thy hands.[26] They shall perish, but thou shalt endure; Yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; As a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed:[27] But thou art the same, And thy years shall have no end.

      I see nothing inverted.

      Thomas Palmieri commented:
      QUOTE: Nowhere does it say God responded to the psalmist's plea in vs. 23-24. That is Russell's invention to deny Paul's linkage of Christ and YHWH, but only the gullible and the un-inquisitive are taken in by such deception. Please stop defending the indefensible! :ENDQUOTE

      This would deny what is written in Hebrews 1.

      Delete
  5. The Son is the creative Word of the Father (Jn 1:1-3), which came forth from the bosom of God (Jn 8:42, 1:18), and spoke forth the universe into existence (Prov 2:6, 8:22-30; Gen 1:1; Jn 1:3). The Son is declared to be the Maker of the Ages (Heb 1:2). What does this mean? Any act of creation involves change of condition, which is a change of time. Therefore the Son cannot have been created by the Father, because if He had been created, He would have had a beginning in time, and in that case, he wouldn't have been the Maker of the Ages. The Son is said by St. John to be "that eternal life (zoen ton aionion), which was with the Father, and was manifested to us" (1 Jn 1:2), who says also, "this is the true God, and eternal life (zon aionios)". Hence, true God = eternal life = eternal life manifested = the Son. That is why Paul affirms in Psalm 102:25-27 that both the Father and the Son are YHWH, the I AM (Ex 3:14; Jn 8:58 - ego eimi = I am, not I have been, or else the Father has said in Revelation, 'I have been (ego eimi) the Alpha and Omega' - Rev 1:8).

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. << The Son is the creative Word of the Father (Jn 1:1-3), >>

      He whose glory the disciples saw who became flesh was, in his prehuman existence the one through whom ELOHIM created the world of the mankind and invisible sons of God. The Son is therefore the instrument in creation, in harmony with 1 Corinthians 8:6.

      The Son is the firstborn creature. The Logos -- who is the Son of God -- was with the "one God of whom are all" in the beginning of the world of mankind. See our studies related to John 1:1-3.

      Delete
    2. << which came forth from the bosom of God (Jn 8:42, 1:18), >>

      {John 8:42} Therefore Jesus said to them, "If God were your father, you would love me, for I came out and have come from God. For I haven't come of myself, but he sent me.

      Jesus is here confirming what Jehovah said through Moses as recorded in Deuteronomy 18:15-19. Jesus is the foretold prophet whom Jehovah was to raise up as the prophet like Moses. -- Acts 3:13-26.

      {John 1:18} No one has seen God at any time. The only-begotten mighty one, who is in the bosom of the Father, he has declared him.

      This does not say that Jesus came from the bosom of God, but rather that Jesus is in the bosom of God. Of course, we should not think that Jehovah has a physical "bosom" as does man, but rather we should understand that John was writing of a figurative bosom. According to Adam Clarke:

      Lying in the bosom, is spoken of in reference to the Asiatic custom of reclining while at meals; the person who was next the other was said to lie in his bosom; and he who had this place in reference to the master of the feast was supposed to share his peculiar regards, and so be in a state of the utmost favor and intimacy with him. :ENDQUOTE
      Clarke, Adam. "Commentary on John 1:18". "The Adam Clarke Commentary". https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/acc/john-1.html. 1832.

      Albert Barnes states:

      QUOTE: In the bosom of the Father - This expression is taken from the custom among the Orientals of reclining at their meals. See the notes at Matthew 23:6. It denotes intimacy, friendship, affection. Here it means that Jesus had a knowledge of God such as one friend has of another - knowledge of his character, designs, and nature which no other one possesses, and which renders him, therefore, qualified above all others to make him known. :ENDQUOTE
      Barnes, Albert. "Commentary on John 1:18". "Barnes' Notes on the Whole Bible". https:https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/bnb/john-1.html. 1870.

      James Coffman states:

      QUOTE: Who is in the bosom of the Father ... suggests the most intimate union and identity with God on the part of Christ. The bosom of the Father is best understood, not as a literal place or location, but as a state of existence. In a similar use of this expression, Jesus declared that Lazarus was in Abraham's bosom (Luke 16:22). :ENDQUOTE
      Coffman, James Burton. "Commentary on John 1:18". "Coffman Commentaries on the Old and New Testament". https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/bcc/john-1.html. Abilene Christian University Press, Abilene, Texas, USA. 1983-1999.

      See also our study: "The Only-Begotten God"

      Delete
    3. << and spoke forth the universe into existence (Prov 2:6, 8:22-30; Gen 1:1; Jn 1:3). >>

      The word universe itself -- in its absolute sense -- means everything that exists. Since God Himself exists, God would then be part of the universe. Since God has always existed, this would mean that the universe itself has always existed.

      However, "universe" is commonly used with special application, such as the "material universe." Some use it the sense of "created universe," which would give it the application to everything created thus only excluding God who was never created. Similarly, the Bible uses some words in the same way. The Hebrew and Greek words for "all" in the Bible, rarely (if ever) means absolutely everything in the universe, or even in the created universe. What is included or excluded in the "all" spoken of has to be determined by the context as well as common evidence.

      {Proverbs 2:6} For Jehovah gives wisdom. Out of his mouth comes knowledge and understanding.

      There is nothing here about the Son of God. Jehovah is the definitely the source of all true knowledge, wisdom and understanding. Jesus did not claim to the source of his own words, but he said, "The words that I tell you, I speak not from myself; but the Father who lives in me does his works." Jesus -- the Logos of God" And he stated: "I do nothing of myself, but as my Father taught me, I say these things." (John 8:28) The Logos of God -- Jesus -- had to learn from the "one God of whom are all". -- 1 Corinthians 8:6.

      Regarding Proverbs 8:22-30, see our study:

      https://jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/2017/05/prov8-22.html

      Delete
    4. << The Son is declared to be the Maker of the Ages (Heb 1:2). What does this mean? Any act of creation involves change of condition, which is a change of time. Therefore the Son cannot have been created by the Father, because if He had been created, He would have had a beginning in time, and in that case, he wouldn't have been the Maker of the Ages. >>

      God, having in the past spoken to the fathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, (Hebrews 1:1, World English)
      In many parts, and many ways, God of old having spoken to the fathers in the prophets, (Hebrews 1:1, Young's Literal)
      has at the end of these days spoken to us by his Son, whom he [God] appointed heir of all things, through whom also he [God] made the worlds [ages]. (Hebrews 1:2, World English)

      Ephesians 3:11 - According to a plan of the ages which he [God] made in [by means of] the anointed Jesus our Lord. -- Rotherham's Emphasized.

      The one person who is "God" in Hebrews 1:1, made the ages through -- by means of -- His son. Exactly what the ages are referred to is not given. However, contextually, it appears that this is speaking of ages related to mankind to whom God speaks through His Son. (Hebrews 1:2) There is nothing here or anywhere else in the Bible about the beginning of time (although some translations add such a thought into some verses). Being that is in reference to man, it is probably referring to the same ages as spoken of Ephesians 3:11, pertaining to God's plan of the ages for mankind.

      Hebrews 1:2, however, is in harmony with 1 Corinthians 8:6. The "one God of whom are all" is the source; the "one Lord through whom are all" is the instrument.

      Delete
    5. This comment has been removed by the author.

      Delete
    6. << That is why Paul affirms in Psalm 102:25-27 that both the Father and the Son are YHWH, >>

      There is nothing in anything that Paul wrote the "affirms in Psalm 102:25-27 that both the Father and the Son are" Jehovah (YHWH forms no pronounceable word in English).

      Since this does not address anything presente in the study above, but seems to ignore what is presented, we can only suggest that one actually prayerfully study what is given.

      Delete
    7. << the I AM (Ex 3:14; Jn 8:58 - ego eimi = I am, not I have been, or else the Father has said in Revelation, 'I have been (ego eimi) the Alpha and Omega' - Rev 1:8). >>

      Jesus nowhere in John 8 declares his name to be EHJEH of Exodus 3:14. One has to take what Jesus said totally out of context in order to read such into what Jesus said. Contrary to what many may claim, Koine Greek tenses cannot be fully matched up with English time tenses. Time related to the verb is often determined by the context. Jesus was speaking of his existence "before Abraham." In such a context the verb takes on a past tense meaning extended to the present, which is indeed best rendered into English as "I have been" or at least in some way to acknowledge the past context usage.

      A Bible, A New Translation – James Moffatt – “Truly, truly I tell you,” said Jesus, “I have existed before Abraham was born.”
      https://studybible.info/Moffatt/John%208
      Moffatt was a trinitarian, but he showed the past tense understanding of this verse.

      Twentieth Century – “In truth I tell you,” replied Jesus, “before Abraham existed I was.”
      http://www.archive.org/details/twentiethcentury00newyiala
      Translated by a company of twenty scholars representing the various sections of the Christian Church.

      The Bible-An American Translation, E. Goodspeed – Jesus said to them, “I tell you, I existed before Abraham was born!”

      And many other translations render the verb in English with a past tense meaning.

      See our studies related to John 8:58:
      https://jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/p/john.html#john8-58

      Revelation 1:8 does not state a past event in context.

      Delete
    8. << he Son is said by St. John to be "that eternal life (zoen ton aionion), which was with the Father, and was manifested to us" (1 Jn 1:2), >>

      Yes, both Jehovah -- the only true God who sent Jesus, as well as the Son who was sent, are to us eternal life. -- Isaiah 61:1; John 17:3.

      See our study: That Which Was From the Beginning

      << who says also, "this is the true God, and eternal life (zon aionios)". >>

      Yes, the true one, the only true God of John 17:3, is to us eternal life.

      See our study: This is the True God

      << Hence, true God = eternal life = eternal life manifested = the Son.>>

      I have no scriptural reason to imagine and assume the above equations. Jesus is not the only true God who sent him, and that the only true God who sent Jesus is not Jesus.

      See our study: Did Jesus Really Say That the Father is the Only True God?

      Delete